I'm sorry that I did not get back to post in the thread about partial preterism and futurism before it was closed. But I have wondered for a long time why it is that many Baptists, claiming to be New Testament Christians, have adopted so many teachings that were only invented 200 - 500 years ago. I am especially perplexed that Baptists would adopt teachings invented by the RCC and Magisterial Protestants. Seems as if many Baptists are not as much New Testament Christians as they claim.
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Baptists and doctrine/eschatology
- Thread starter Rebel1
- Start date
Could you be a bit more specific as to what doctrines the Baptist adopted that were invented 200-500 years ago?
What Baptist doctrine do you claim were invented by the RCC and "Magisterial" Protestants? (I am not aware of any "Magisterial" Protestants. There is no "Protestant Pope.") If you are referring to Magisterial Reformers whose efforts were supported by at least some ruling authorities and because they believed the civil magistrates ought to enforce the true faith, that type of state church has pretty much passed away. Even the Lutheran Church in Germany is no longer strictly a state church but now it (along with the RCC) is considered an "endorsed" church by the government.
Only the Baptist folks do not have a formal hierarchy in which holds the authority over the local group.
Even then how much authority the convention of various Baptist affiliations is a matter of influence and friendship approval rather than by the standards of authorization in the politically influenced of other denominations.
But even in the most independent of independent Baptist churches, they fell into group alignment of who held friendship with whom and more often would "break fellowship" if some other congregation didn't comply.
Well, full pretierism has always been seen as being a heresy, and the earliest Christians held to a form of premil. Many also would say that Calvin and some reformers were so much into getting the real Gospel of Grace brought back in that they did not spend much time into prophecy and just assumed over RCC thoughts on that matter. Also, whether a Baptist is reformed/Dispy will determine a large part of this!
It is always dicey to say some biblical doctrine was "invented" 200 or 500 years ago. Trust me, the advocates of whatever doctrine you have in mind will claim they only discovered what was the actual meaning of God's word from its origination. End Times doctrines are usually based on speculation, this means that and therefore XYZ is the revealed truth. The Bible does warn us to not get sidetracked quibbling over non-essentials. The gospel of Christ, His birth, life, instructions, death, and resurrection should be our bread and butter.
Other groups do not have a formal hierarchy. Church Of Christ despise the word denomination more so than Baptists.
The Church Of France is Lutheran.
Luther was in Germany -......
dont think so
IN FRANCE:
64 % are Roman Catholic
3 % are Protestants (incl Baptists)
5 % Other
28% No religion
So do the Brethren, They say "We are just a group of Christians worshipping together." They call themselves an "Assembly" rather than a church. Their Buildings are referred to as Gospel Halls.
However many of them now call themselves Evangelical Churches and some a Christian Fellowships.
A few years ago we held the funeral service for a Brethren man, and when some oh is friends came in, one said, *This is a nice prayer room".
Weren't the Church of Christ folks originally Baptist?
You are wrong.
I Know. I have been in them, as the only non Catholic church in the town, Only about three times. 1st time was a good gospel message. 2nd Actually I didn't attend but my wife did, She said "I am glad you didn't come, it was awful." 3rd time was in Le Havre, The service was 2 hours and we had no idea what it was about, They were supposed to have communion but didn't get around to it. After the service people gathered around in groups but no one spoke so us. We saw a black man sitting on a bench so we spoke to him for a short while and then left.
Baptists are not much better, one we went to for a few years got a new pastor who led them into Charismaticism and now is no different fro any charismatics. That is in Vesoul.
We once went to a baptist Church Cambrai, and the service lasted 2 hours when people started falling on the ground, we left.
Then there was The Baptist in Coulommiers. They had a "worship group" who played the songs, then they all burst into tongues all at the same time. The pastor invited us to stay for lunch, but we declined, but although we didn't say anything, he said "There is a menonite church in the area, they may suit you.
In Laon, France, there is a Baptist church we have been visiting for over five years when we are in the area.. The Pastor is an American Missionary who is severely disabled. He is in pain all the time. He preaches from an electric wheelchair. He was due to have a full body scan in Paris recently. They were unable to carry it out as he was too bent over. His wife said as he is over 70 and will probably have to retire in a few months. Pasteur Baughman has said in the past when asked why he doesn't retire, he said that while he is able to continue, he won't retire until there is someone to replace him.
Copied from the web:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop
That is not true. Absolutely not true.
Their are baptists who do have a formal hierarchy such as the Baptist Union in UK.
There are many others that don't, such as Evangelical, Brethren and many charismatic groups,
There is a church near here called Swalecliffe Free Church (Baptist), but it is not free, it is a part of the Baptist Union.
I have taken the following from The Baptist Union UK website.
It isn’t consistent with your statement.
In this Baptist family everybody is equal, for everybody has a part to play in the service of God. There is no hierarchy of bishops or priests exercising authority over their members. Equality of status, however, does not mean that all have the same role.
Each local Baptist church appoints its own leaders - or ministers - to have particular responsibility for preaching, teaching and pastoral care. Working alongside these ministers are also deacons, who together with the minister(s) form the leadership team of the local Baptist church.
Baptists are grass-roots people, with a particular emphasis on the local church. These local churches are self-governing and self-supporting, ranging in size from twenty or so members to many hundreds. Although each Baptist church is an independent entity, Baptists nonetheless have always believed in associating with one another - and so the churches come together in regional, national and international spheres to promote and support the fellowship of Baptists everywhere.
Each local Baptist church appoints its own leaders - or ministers - to have particular responsibility for preaching, teaching and pastoral care. Working alongside these ministers are also deacons, who together with the minister(s) form the leadership team of the local Baptist church.
Baptists are grass-roots people, with a particular emphasis on the local church. These local churches are self-governing and self-supporting, ranging in size from twenty or so members to many hundreds. Although each Baptist church is an independent entity, Baptists nonetheless have always believed in associating with one another - and so the churches come together in regional, national and international spheres to promote and support the fellowship of Baptists everywhere.
The Baptist Union of Great Britain : Who are Baptists?
Perhaps, the information they present is false?
Do you have a better source to offer as a resolve?
I only go by what I see. The BU churches believe in women preachers, and the ecumenical movement , Those I know abide by the teachings from above. They may be independent in theory,. but?
According to what the website stated, the local church autonomy is unfettered by any controlling body. I am not involved with the group, and they may be like some SBC churches which claim autonomy but cling to whatever comes from the convention as if it were directly from God.
BB member David Lamb from the UK says:
www.baptistboard.com/threads/eternal-security.36856/#post-970670
The fathers of the movement, Barton Stone and Alexander Campbell, were both originally Presbyterian ministers. Stone left the Presbyterians and led the Christian Churches. Campbell joined the Baptists for a time until Baptist Associations decided they had fundamental differences that could not be reconciled. Many Baptist churches (and associations) joined the Disciples movement, creating a very hostile relationship between the two groups. The Christian Churches and the Disciples of Christ joined in 1832. The marriage eventually fell apart; the Disciples became a denomination; the Churches of Christ do not consider themselves a denomination but are united through a string of universities and other institutions; the independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ likewise have their own institutions and, to the outsider, can be distinguished from their Church of Christ brethren mostly because they have instrumental music.