Jesus coming in His Kingdom

[Iconoclast]

Matthew 16:28King James Version (KJV)
28 Verily I say unto you,

There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death,

till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

These men were standing there listening to Jesus.

Jesus said that some who were alive that day,

would not die , UNTIL...they saw Jesus coming in His kingdom.

Some who were there that day, would die before this happened....so...There is a way they would know and see "Jesus coming In His Kingdom".

Jesus did not return to earth , physically or spiritually.

He came in judgment as King, in His Kingdom.

But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven .
(Mat 26:63-64)

Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet. And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind. And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies. Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled. The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.
(2Sa 22:8-14)

That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
(Zep 1:15-17)

Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled. O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness , that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?
(Jer 4:13-14)

 

[Iconoclast]

Isaiah 52King James Version (KJV)
52 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

2 Shake thyself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.

3 For thus saith the Lord, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money.

4 For thus saith the Lord God, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.

5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the Lord, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the Lord; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.

6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion,
Thy God reigneth!

The Kingdom with the king reigning was part of the gospel proclamation...here in Romans 10;
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom15;

8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.

11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.

12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Iconoclast]

1. As a shepherd seeks out his flock when he is among his sheep that have been scattered, so will I seek out my sheep, and I will rescue them from all places where they have been scattered on a day of clouds and thick darkness. (Ex 34:12)

1. Blow a trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm on My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble, For the day of the LORD is coming; Surely it is near, A day of darkness and gloom, A day of clouds and thick darkness. …. There has never been anything like it, Nor will there be again after it To the years of many generations. (Joel 2:1-4)

1. For the day is near, the day of the LORD is near– a day of clouds, a time of doom for the nations….Dark will be the day at Tahpanhes when I break the yoke of Egypt; there her proud strength will come to an end. She will be covered with clouds, and her villages will go into captivity. (Ex 30:3, 18)

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Jesus said that some who were alive that day,

would not die , UNTIL...they saw Jesus coming in His kingdom.

'For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made know to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eye-witnesses of His majesty. For He received from God the Father honour and glory when such a voice came to Him from the excellent glory: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (2 Peter 1:16-17).

 

[Deacon]

I'll be introducing the theme of Kingdom in this mornings adult bible study as we begin Matthew 4:12f

Howard Snyder's book, Models of the Kingdom identifies 8 very different models of the kingdom of heaven

1. The kingdom as political state: the theocratic kingdom.
2. The kingdom as earthly utopia: the utopian kingdom.
3. The kingdom as institutional church: the ecclesiastical kingdom.
4. The kingdom as future hope: the future kingdom.
5. The kingdom as inner spiritual experience: the interior kingdom.
6. The kingdom as Christianized culture: the transforming kingdom.
7. The kingdom as mystical communion: the heavenly kingdom.
8. The kingdom as counter-system: the subversive kingdom.

Which one are you identifying with?

Rob

 

[TCassidy]

Which one are you identifying with?

The Mediatorial Kingdom.

 

[agedman]

I'll be introducing the theme of Kingdom in this mornings adult bible study as we begin Matthew 4:12f

Howard Snyder's book, Models of the Kingdom identifies 8 very different models of the kingdom of heaven

1. The kingdom as political state: the theocratic kingdom.
2. The kingdom as earthly utopia: the utopian kingdom.
3. The kingdom as institutional church: the ecclesiastical kingdom.
4. The kingdom as future hope: the future kingdom.
5. The kingdom as inner spiritual experience: the interior kingdom.
6. The kingdom as Christianized culture: the transforming kingdom.
7. The kingdom as mystical communion: the heavenly kingdom.
8. The kingdom as counter-system: the subversive kingdom.

Which one are you identifying with?

Rob

1, 2, 4, and 6.

I disagree with TCassidy thinking of it as mediatory.

When I read of the prophets about that time, there is sever judgment for those who are non-compliant during that time.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I'll be introducing the theme of Kingdom in this mornings adult bible study as we begin Matthew 4:12f

Howard Snyder's book, Models of the Kingdom identifies 8 very different models of the kingdom of heaven

1. The kingdom as political state: the theocratic kingdom.
2. The kingdom as earthly utopia: the utopian kingdom.
3. The kingdom as institutional church: the ecclesiastical kingdom.
4. The kingdom as future hope: the future kingdom.
5. The kingdom as inner spiritual experience: the interior kingdom.
6. The kingdom as Christianized culture: the transforming kingdom.
7. The kingdom as mystical communion: the heavenly kingdom.
8. The kingdom as counter-system: the subversive kingdom.

Which one are you identifying with?

Rob

None of those. Christ reigning in the midst of His enemies (Psalm 11:1-2; Daniel 7:14; Mark 16:19; Ephesians 1:18-23).
This is not the 'heavenly kingdom.' Christ rules over all.

 

[Van]

The orthodox baptist explanation of this difficulty is some there saw the transformation, which pictured His coming. And therefore the orthodox view as dispensationalist, whether traditional or (like me) progressive.

 

[TCassidy]

I disagree with TCassidy thinking of it as mediatory.

Then you have an incomplete understanding of Kingdom theology. I suggest you read "The Greatness of the Kingdom" by Alva J. McClain.

 

[agedman]

Then you have an incomplete understanding of Kingdom theology. I suggest you read "The Greatness of the Kingdom" by Alva J. McClain.

I’ll look for it.

 

[TCassidy]

I’ll look for it.

Even though I am not a dispensationalist (only in a minimalist sort of way, OT, NT, Kingdom) McClain makes more sense out of the bible's use of the word "Kingdom" than any scholar I have ever read. Reading his book is a real eye-opener. Even if, after reading it, you disagree with him and remain unconvinced, you will at least have an appreciation of what others believe, and why they believe it, regarding the bible's use of the term "Kingdom."

 

[Covenanter]

From another thread -

Eschatology is the study of future things, of prophecy fulfilled and unfulfilled in the Bible. This thread will have a much more narrow focus, so please don't make it about prophecy per se. Eschatology intersects with Christology, the doctrine of Christ in the doctrine of the Second Coming. However, more importantly to the cause of orthodox Christianity, the full preterist insistence that Christ came spiritually in AD 70 has very serious consequences for Christology proper.

Consider. If Christ came spiritually in AD 70, but did not come physically, then the hypostatic union of Christ as 100% human and 100% God is not true. This doctrine was formulated way back in 325 at the first Council of Nicea in opposition to Arianism. Arius (c. 250-336) was a popular elder from Alexandria who developed a Christology that said Christ was truly a Person, though He was not equally God with the Father, but was eternally subordinate. In answer to this heresy, the council's phraseology was that Christ was 100% God and 100% Man, with neither being subordinate. This is called the hypostatic union.

Later, in the 5th century came the Nestorians, and the Nestorian heresy (which Nestorius probably did not teach) was that the deity and humanity of Christ were separate instead of united.

If the hypostatic union of Christ is true (and it is), then full preterism denies this doctrine. Preterism says that Christ came spiritually in AD 70, and therefore there is no need for a physical coming of Christ. But if Christ came spiritually, then the deity and humanity of Christ were divided. How could the spiritual part of Christ come to earth and the physical part stay in Heaven? The human soul of Christ and the spiritual nature, God Himself, are eternally united in Christ.

So when was the soul/spirit of Christ divided from the physical body? On the cross!! With that as a basis for thought, full preterism must then say, "Well, Christ came spiritually, but then His body in Heaven died at that time. Can you see how absurd this is?

Does that post as quoted invalidate this thread?

Is the Kingdom of Christ restricted to the spiritual realm?

Do we look for an physical, earthly Kingdom after Jesus returns?

Is Jesus' declaration

“All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.​

a present reality?

Is the only occurrence of ὑποστάσεως - in Hebrews 1:3 - in relation to Christ -

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person​

a reference to the hypostatic union?

Does the doctrine of hypostatic union necessarily invalidate the concept of a present spiritual reign of Christ - come in his Kingdom?

 

[agedman]

Is the Kingdom of Christ restricted to the spiritual realm?

Do we look for an physical, earthly Kingdom after Jesus returns?


Is the only occurrence of ὑποστάσεως - in Hebrews 1:3 - in relation to Christ -

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person​

a reference to the hypostatic union?

Does the doctrine of hypostatic union necessarily invalidate the concept of a present spiritual reign of Christ - come in his Kingdom?

Briefly,

1) yes the physical return of Christ is literal just just as John states in the Revelation, and will occur prior to the literal millennium. After that is the end, no heaven, no earth, judgment, new heaven, new earth.

2) the word "person" is transliterated "hupostasis". It concerns the nature (NASB translation).

3) be careful not to confuse reigning now with that of the millennium reign. The display of authority is different as well as the practice of authority.
During the millennium the delegated authority of the current power is bound.

When Christ declared about all athority given Him, consider the picture given by John when the Lamb takes the Scrolls.