Penal Substitution

the soul that sins against the Law of God must pay be their own death, so Jesus accepted to take in our state the due penalty for our sin breaking!owed

 

The basis of God freely forgiving any sinner would be due to Jesus death in their behalf, by Him taking their due wrath and judgement from God. correct?

 

If God could not rightly judge all as sinners in Adam, how can He then be able to judge all in Christ as now saved?

 

First PST is a Trojan horse for Limited Atonement. PST teaches that Christ died for the specific sins of those individual chosen to be saved. Both concepts are mistaken.

Christ died for the sin of the world. Any individual transferred into Christ will undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration, and arise in Christ a new creation, made perfect, righteous and holy.

Penal substitution holds Christ died for the specific sins of specific individuals, thus advocates Limited Atonement. This is the elephant in the room.

The other view is Christ died for the sin of the world, all mankind. When any individual is placed spiritually into Christ, their sins, past, present and future, are taken away, removed by the Circumcision of Christ.

Here are the two views of Christ’s Substitutionary Sacrifice on the cross.

Christ died for the specific sins of the elect.
Christ died for the sin of all mankind, elect and non-elect.

If Christ died for the specific sins of all mankind, then God is demanding "double payment" punishing Christ for the specific sins of those in hell, and punishing those in hell for their sins.

Often you will see the line, "Christ died for our sins" but "our" is not defined as all mankind or as the elect. Hence a Trojan horse, with a "hidden" agenda.

Unless you define "your" view of PSA as Christ dying for the sin of all mankind, you are pushing Limited Atonement. Please provide a quote that supports your assertion.

Here is one view: "Kenneth J. Collins in his book "The Theology of John Wesley: Holy Love and the Shape of Grace" writes, "for Wesley, Christ makes compensation and satisfies the justice of God precisely by standing in the place of sinful humanity," Note that this view refers to "sinful humanity" not "sinners" as in specific individuals.

Show me a quote that says PSA refers to Christ dying for "sinful humanity" today. That little tidbit is left out of the definitions found today. PSA today refers to the Reformed view.

Here is the Wikipedia definition: "Penal substitution (sometimes, esp. in older writings, called forensic theory) is a theory of the atonement within Christian theology, developed with the Reformed tradition. It argues that Christ, by his own sacrificial choice, was punished (penalized) in the place of sinners (substitution)...." Note the reference to specific "sinners."

Again, if you define PSA as Christ dying for all mankind, you are referring to an old and outdated view.

Calvin and a few other Reformation theologians linked the concept of the elect and of predestination to the Penal Theory. They taught that God selected a small percentage of people before their birth to form "the elect." They were not chosen because of any special achievement on their part. They did not deserve to be selected. They were chosen by a process known only to God. Philosopher Michael Martin explains: "Those who have faith in Jesus and are, therefore, saved are the elect of God. Their faith comes as a gift of God through the Holy Spirit...those who are saved through this gift were predestined to have this gift bestowed upon them." 3 Thus, Yeshua died, not to repay the debt for the sins of all humanity, but only for the sins of the elect.

 

Can you show from the scriptures how God can pardon and forgive our sins without someone having to pay the full due penalty for sins, that included divine wrath and judgement against sins?

Can even God forgive sinners who repent and confess , without that lamb substituted in their stead?

 

Jesus could not actually die in the place of all sinners, foir that would mean not one sinner would be now not reconciled back to God!

 

The problem is that the context for PSA is not based upon calvin view of leagle system, but rooted in the very framework of the Sacrifice system in the OT!

 

May I butt in to this thread.

There is this concept that God PUNISHED Himself.

That is just not supported in Scripture.

As I shared on a different thread, God was pleased that Christ suffered. However the suffering WAS NOT From God’s hand.

Rather, all that was doing the punishment was by the ungodly nature which occurs anytime God withholds support.

Through Scripture, in EVERY instance in which God’s wrath is displayed, it is by humans and nature occurring as a result of God withholding support.

This was the events of the cross.

There is only ONE place in all Scripture where God very directly by His own strength brings the wrath. That is at the second coming when the forces of this ungodly world are crushed by His sword.

God did not punish His Son, He was (according to Isaiah 53:10) pleased to allow what humans and nature do because it is what they by the ungodly authority do.

Now, I will bow out.

 

The ONLY reason and basis that God could and did forgive them though was based upon the death of Jesus as the substitute sin bearer in their stead, and not based upon anything that the sinner has done!

 

God Himself directed His wrath towards and upon Jesus, as it was God Himself who bore the full penalty in our stead!

 

Jesus did not become actual sin, as he always stay blameless and undefiled, but in the sight of God He took and bore our sins in the sense of His death was in our own place, and there was a wrath of God to be satisfied here!
Do you beleive that God has an active wrath towards sins and sinners, that there is a judgement towards them that involves wrath coming down upon them?

 

Your understanding seems to be devoid of including the wrath of God that comes against sinners, and towards Jesus as their sin bearer!