Preterism Proof

ALL they would have to do to persuade me is to show where in history the second coming happened, and when the saints alive and dead in Christ were resurrected!

 

And when the Resurrection of the Body of Christ , the church, happened!

 

So, if the great trib has already occurred, Jesus is long-overdue!

Spurgeon thought it had occurred:

Matthew 24:19-21. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such at was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

"You and I would have believed that all this came true without any confirmation from outside history, but it was very remarkable that God should raise up the Jew Josephus, and put it into his mind to write a record of the siege of Jerusalem, which curdles the blood of everyone who reads it, and exactly bears out the statement of the Master that there was to be “great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world, no, nor ever shall be.”

Spurgeon the heretic!


Unbelievably, some prets argue these verses aren't literal because stars don't fall from the sky! How absurd! Jesus knew, of course, that "falling star" was a common term for "meteor", a term still in use today.

Any scriptural proof for this? Does it always mean this in scripture?


(Perry Como sang "Catch a falling star & put it in your pocket".) Jesus was using terminology His audience understood, with the emphasis being on His return, not an astronomy lesson.

So Jesus used Hebrew idioms? Welcome to the club. Perhaps those Jews also understood idioms like "heaven and earth" and "coming in the clouds". Do you think His audience also understood those deep theological words like "soon, near, at hand, and quickly"?



If preterism is true, I'm still wondering when the sky rained 100 lb. rock

Read the "War of the Jews by Josephus"



Matthew 24 Fulfilled

Sun, Moon, and Stars

Immediately after the tribulation of those days

the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give

its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the

powers of the heavens will be shaken.(Matthew 24:29)


At the end of the Tribulation, Jesus said, the

universe will collapse: the light of the sun and the

moon will be extinguished, the stars will fall, the

powers of the heavens will be shaken. The basis for

this symbolism is in Genesis 1:14-16, where the sun,

moon, and stars (“the powers of the heavens”) are

spoken of as “signs” which “govern” the world. Later

in Scripture, these heavenly lights are used to speak

of earthly authorities and governors; and when God

threatens to come against them in judgment, the same

collapsing-universe terminology is used to describe

it. Prophesying the fall of Babylon to the Medes in

539 B. C., Isaiah wrote:


Behold, the Day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with

fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation;

And He will exterminate its sinners from it. For the

stars of heaven and their constellations Will not

flash forth with their light; The sun will be dark

when it rises, And the moon will not shed its light

(Isaiah 13:9-10).


Significantly, Isaiah later prophesied the fall of

Edom in terms of de-creation:


And all the host of heaven will wear away, And the sky

will be rolled up like a scroll; All their hosts will

also wither away As a leaf withers from the vine, Or

as one withers from the fig tree (Isaiah 34:4),


Isaiah’s contemporary, the prophet Amos, foretold

the doom of Samaria (722 B.C.) in much the same way:


“And it will come about in that day,” Declares the

Lord GOD, “That I shall make the sun go down at noon

And make the earth dark in broad daylight” (Amos 8:9).


Another example is from the prophet Ezekiel, who

predicted the destruction of Egypt. God said this

through Ezekiel:


“And when I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens,

and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a

cloud, And the moon shall not give its light. All the

shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you

And will set darkness on your land,” Declares the Lord

GOD (Ezekiel 32:7-8).


It must be stressed that none of these events

literally took place. God did not intend anyone to

place a literalist construction on these statements.

Poetically, however, all these things did happen: as

far as these wicked nations were concerned, "the

lights went out." This is simply figurative language,

which would not surprise us at all if we were more

familiar with the Bible and appreciative of its

literary character.


What Jesus is saying in Matthew 24, therefore, in

prophetic terminology immediately recognizable by his

disciples, is that the light of Israel is going to be

extinguished; the covenant nation will cease to exist.

When the Tribulation is over, old Israel will be gone.

 

Thanks Roby!

I'll start by reminding everyone that ALL Bible believing Christians are preterist, we only vary by degree.

All Bible believing Christians affirm that at least SOME last days prophesy was fulfilled in the apostles generation, for Scripture testifies such:

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by HisSon, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

Acts 2
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. 16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.

1 Corinthians 10
Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

 

Consistency Daniel-san..
Explain David's account of His defeat of Saul please. Don't forget to provide CONCRETE PROOF of these things LITERALLY happening, otherwise your objections are moot:

Then the earth shook and quaked, the foundations of heaven were trembling and were shaken, because He was angry. Smoke went up out of His nostrils, fire from His mouth devoured; coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down with thick darkness under His feet. And He rode on a cherub and flew; And He WAS SEEN on the wings of the wind. And He made darkness canopies around Him, a mass of waters, thick clouds of the sky. From the brightness before Him coals of fire were kindled. The LORD thundered from heaven, and the Most High uttered His voice. And He sent out arrows, and scattered them, Lightning, and routed them. Then the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were laid bare by the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of His nostrils. (2 Sam 22:8-16)

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

Wait... you just claimed above that "The prophesied events in daniel 9, Jesus' Olivet Discourse in Matt. 24 & Luke 21, and the prophecies of Revelation have NOT yet been fulfilled,"
Now you claim SOME were?

More evidence of your onw partial preterism i guess Roby.

So the Parable of the Fig tree is not a parable after all?

When did this passage get fulfilled:

Matthew 21:33-45
33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them.37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking of them.

Or Are we still waiting for this to occur?

 

If the Bible is true, why aren't you likewise wondering when these things LITERALLY happened at the time Assyria Conqured Samaria & Jerusalem in 721BCE?? (Micah 1) :

1 The word of the Lord that came to Micah of Moresheth in the days of Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, which he saw concerning Samaria and Jerusalem.

The Coming Judgment on Israel
2 Hear, all you peoples!
Listen, O earth, and all that is in it!
Let the Lord God be a witness against you,
The Lord from His holy temple.

3 For behold, the Lord is coming out of His place;
He will come down
And tread on the high places of the earth.
4 The mountains will melt under Him,
And the valleys will split
Like wax before the fire,
Like waters poured down a steep place.
5 All this is for the transgression of Jacob
And for the sins of the house of Israel.
What is the transgression of Jacob?
Is it not Samaria?
And what are the high places of Judah?
Are they not Jerusalem?

6 “Therefore I will make Samaria a heap of ruins in the field,
Places for planting a vineyard;
I will pour down her stones into the valley,
And I will uncover her foundations.
7 All her carved images shall be beaten to pieces,
And all her pay as a harlot shall be burned with the fire;
All her idols I will lay desolate,
For she gathered it from the pay of a harlot,
And they shall return to the pay of a harlot.”

Have you read Ezekiel 32?
According to Ezekiel, the stars went out when Babylon invaded Egypt and watered all the land and filled all the rivers with Pharaoh's Blood.

See these fulfilled prophecies and note the common language in each:

*Micah 1:1-9 -- Assyrian conquest of Samaria and Jerusalem
*Nahum 1:1-8 -- Nineveh's doom
*Zephaniah 1:1-10,14-18 -- Judgment against Judah
*2 Samuel 22:8-16 -- destruction of Saul's kingdom
*Ezekiel 32:1-12 -- Judgment against Egypt by Babylon

In each of these fulfilled passages, we read all of the common language to describe Jehovah's comings:

*the destruction of earth
*the bowing of the heavens
*the melting of the mountains like wax
*the blackening of the sun, moon, and stars
*the wiping away of every living thing
*blood as high as the mountains
*the burning of the earth and all that dwell in it (at His presence)
*Etc. etc.

Show us the evidence of this LITERALLY happening.

 

Excellent point. Thank you.

 

It is not Spurgeon who is the heretic.

Jacob didn't believe stars in prophecy referred to stars or meteors, Neither did John in Revelation.

 

Robycob follows Jesuit futurism theories.

 

1“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3Those who are wisea will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

5Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?”

7The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time.b When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”

When was the Power of The holy people broken? When when the covenant broken?

 

I knew when I saw that you posted this:

"I am a fundy indy Baptist"

I was wasting my time, but I foolishly continued. My bad for thinking you were really interested in a conversation.

 

Daniel 9 was completely fulfilled in Christ,

You are as ignorant as Donald Trump

 

Matthew 24 Commentary - Spurgeon's Verse Expositions of the Bible