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Are Sunni and Shia Islam a False Gospel like Mormonism?

R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Steven Yeadon said:
I think you misinterpreted me. To avoid this response I later posted:

I must add that I am someone who believes that false Gospels do not save people. That includes Mormonism and to me Roman Catholicism. These religions can give aspects of the truth, but salvation is the result of trusting the true Jesus of a literal reading of the bible, not a made up one outside the bible.​
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The title of your thread is:

"
"Are Sunni and Shia Islam a False Gospel like Mormonism?"

Nothing you posted thus far has worked to avoid my response.
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
Earth Wind and Fire said:
So what do you need a Baptist Church for?
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A Baptist Church ("Baptist" being a doctrinal identity and not a denominational name) is the repository of the Great Commission, and the gifts of apostle, prophets, evangelists, and pastor/teachers.

The Great Commission is the commission of the church to reach out into the community and win the lost, baptize them, and disciple them.

To accomplish this Commission, God has gifted the churches with apostles (messengers), prophets (preachers), evangelists (what we call missionaries today), and pastor/teachers.

The "Lone Ranger" philosophy that has so overtaken Christendom (especially American Christendom) by storm is a result of the decline of the local church and the exaltation of the para-church organization which started in the early decades of the 19th century and later with men like Charles Finney and others with their "new measures" of what came to be known as "Evangelical Revivalism." This movement laid the foundations for the extra-church "ministries" of the Vineyard movement, the Church Growth Movement, the political and social crusades, televangelism, and the Promise Keepers movement, among others.

Finney's "new measures" were founded on Finney’s moralistic impulses which saw a church that was an agency of personal and social reform rather than the institution which God intended it to be. To take the Gospel to the world.

In the nineteenth century, the evangelical movement became increasingly identified with political causes-from abolition of slavery and child labor legislation to women’s rights and the prohibition of alcohol.

In an effort to regain the institutional power and the glory of "Christian America" (a vision that exists in the imagination, but is elusive in reality), the turn-of-the century Protestant establishment launched moral campaigns to "Americanize" immigrants, enforce moral instruction and provide "character education" in the place of true discipleship. Evangelists pitched their American gospel in terms of its practical usefulness to the individual and the nation.

And that brought us "The Moral Majority" and the "Christian Right" of Jerry Falwell and the "Sojourners" and "Christian Left" of Jim Wallis.

What I find tragic is that Dispensational Evangelicalism refers to this time period as "The Church Age" yet the church has been relegated to the back seat while the para-church organizations are in the driver's seat.

Until we return to the Primacy of the Local Church the decline of American Christendom will continue.

Even the Lord Jesus Christ was forced to ask the question in Luke 18:8 Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
TCassidy said:
A Baptist Church ("Baptist" being a doctrinal identity and not a denominational name) is the repository of the Great Commission, and the gifts of apostle, prophets, evangelists, and pastor/teachers.

The Great Commission is the commission of the church to reach out into the community and win the lost, baptize them, and disciple them.

To accomplish this Commission, God has gifted the churches with apostles (messengers), prophets (preachers), evangelists (what we call missionaries today), and pastor/teachers.

The "Lone Ranger" philosophy that has so overtaken Christendom (especially American Christendom) by storm is a result of the decline of the local church and the exaltation of the para-church organization which started in the early decades of the 19th century and later with men like Charles Finney and others with their "new measures" of what came to be known as "Evangelical Revivalism." This movement laid the foundations for the extra-church "ministries" of the Vineyard movement, the Church Growth Movement, the political and social crusades, televangelism, and the Promise Keepers movement, among others.

Finney's "new measures" were founded on Finney’s moralistic impulses which saw a church that was an agency of personal and social reform rather than the institution which God intended it to be. To take the Gospel to the world.

In the nineteenth century, the evangelical movement became increasingly identified with political causes-from abolition of slavery and child labor legislation to women’s rights and the prohibition of alcohol.

In an effort to regain the institutional power and the glory of "Christian America" (a vision that exists in the imagination, but is elusive in reality), the turn-of-the century Protestant establishment launched moral campaigns to "Americanize" immigrants, enforce moral instruction and provide "character education" in the place of true discipleship. Evangelists pitched their American gospel in terms of its practical usefulness to the individual and the nation.

And that brought us "The Moral Majority" and the "Christian Right" of Jerry Falwell and the "Sojourners" and "Christian Left" of Jim Wallis.

What I find tragic is that Dispensational Evangelicalism refers to this time period as "The Church Age" yet the church has been relegated to the back seat while the para-church organizations are in the driver's seat.

Until we return to the Primacy of the Local Church the decline of American Christendom will continue.

Even the Lord Jesus Christ was forced to ask the question in Luke 18:8 Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”
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Yes...BUT not where most would assume.
 
agedman

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
TCassidy said:
A Baptist Church ("Baptist" being a doctrinal identity and not a denominational name) is the repository of the Great Commission, and the gifts of apostle, prophets, evangelists, and pastor/teachers.

The Great Commission is the commission of the church to reach out into the community and win the lost, baptize them, and disciple them.

To accomplish this Commission, God has gifted the churches with apostles (messengers), prophets (preachers), evangelists (what we call missionaries today), and pastor/teachers.

The "Lone Ranger" philosophy that has so overtaken Christendom (especially American Christendom) by storm is a result of the decline of the local church and the exaltation of the para-church organization which started in the early decades of the 19th century and later with men like Charles Finney and others with their "new measures" of what came to be known as "Evangelical Revivalism." This movement laid the foundations for the extra-church "ministries" of the Vineyard movement, the Church Growth Movement, the political and social crusades, televangelism, and the Promise Keepers movement, among others.

Finney's "new measures" were founded on Finney’s moralistic impulses which saw a church that was an agency of personal and social reform rather than the institution which God intended it to be. To take the Gospel to the world.

In the nineteenth century, the evangelical movement became increasingly identified with political causes-from abolition of slavery and child labor legislation to women’s rights and the prohibition of alcohol.

In an effort to regain the institutional power and the glory of "Christian America" (a vision that exists in the imagination, but is elusive in reality), the turn-of-the century Protestant establishment launched moral campaigns to "Americanize" immigrants, enforce moral instruction and provide "character education" in the place of true discipleship. Evangelists pitched their American gospel in terms of its practical usefulness to the individual and the nation.

And that brought us "The Moral Majority" and the "Christian Right" of Jerry Falwell and the "Sojourners" and "Christian Left" of Jim Wallis.

What I find tragic is that Dispensational Evangelicalism refers to this time period as "The Church Age" yet the church has been relegated to the back seat while the para-church organizations are in the driver's seat.

Until we return to the Primacy of the Local Church the decline of American Christendom will continue.

Even the Lord Jesus Christ was forced to ask the question in Luke 18:8 Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”
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This is Excellent!

In my opinion, the church began the Laodicean decline around the time of Finney.

As much as I admire the great evangelistic endeavors and esteem many of those, it must be recognized that that which took place outside of the direct control of the assembly could been seen as doing damage to the local assembly.
 
robycop3

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Steven Yeadon said:
The reason I ask this question is because of the central importance of Jesus to the Quran and the Semitic history of the Arabs. It seems to me that Sunni and Shia Islam are about as out there as Mormonism and should be given the moniker of "false Gospel" by Christians instead of being treated as entirely Pagan religions like Eastern Religions and Greek Mythology. It seems that Islam is an erroneous take on the truth rather than a faith that never cared about the truth to begin with.
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Steven, just Google "allah" to see what Moslems worship. Islam is pagan as worshipping a utility pole.
 
robycop3

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
agedman said:
This is Excellent!

In my opinion, the church began the Laodicean decline around the time of Finney.

As much as I admire the great evangelistic endeavors and esteem many of those, it must be recognized that that which took place outside of the direct control of the assembly could been seen as doing damage to the local assembly.
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Usually, we pretty well agree, but we won't on one point of your post I quoted:

The "Laodicean" statement indicates you believe the false "seven church ages" doctrine of Darby & the charlatans William Marrion Branham & Arnold Murray of "Shepherd's Chapel".( Promoted as well by several other pentecostal/charismatic "preachers")

I believe I'll start a thread on that false doctrine, rather than derail this thread further.
 
S

Steven Yeadon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Revmitchell said:
The title of your thread is:

"
"Are Sunni and Shia Islam a False Gospel like Mormonism?"

Nothing you posted thus far has worked to avoid my response.
Click to expand...

I do know that Islam is a false religion. My problem is how to organize Islam in terms of Secularism, Paganism, and what I'll call False Gospels, that use the truth to lead astray just as much as secularity or paganism.

Put another way, is Islam in fact a "heresy," though I hate that term for historical reasons. Or is Islam better put in the camp of the Pagan?

I guess a more straightforward question would be: Is Islam more a Pagan religion or is it more a pseudo-Christian "heresy."
 
agedman

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
robycop3 said:
Usually, we pretty well agree, but we won't on one point of your post I quoted:

The "Laodicean" statement indicates you believe the false "seven church ages" doctrine of Darby & the charlatans William Marrion Branham & Arnold Murray of "Shepherd's Chapel".( Promoted as well by several other pentecostal/charismatic "preachers")

I believe I'll start a thread on that false doctrine, rather than derail this thread further.
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I don't see the problem with the indication of the statements being BOTH to the local assembly, and to the age, for even Paul's statement concerning a great falling away just prior to the Second Coming would verify that some "Laodicean" effect has infested the "church" as a grouping.

I see that in the greater number of the "popular stars" from the last "great evangelist" (Billy Graham) including all the pop top ones, today. Pick any, and they all basically represent a growing trend toward a Laodicean setting.

No reason, therefore, to not see the "age" timeline, no matter who might have published it.

However, lest some disdain over thinking that I follow some "Darby" dispensationalism in lock step, it would just not accurate.

Am I rapture hopeful?

Sure. Why not????

Wouldn't every believer desire not to be suffering? Of Course.

Am I overcome with finding every little indication that The Lord is Coming at 2:00, certainly not.

I think such books and media hype is merely a tool that God allowed so that more would fall away in disappointment, and begin to display those true believers.
 
agedman

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Steven Yeadon said:
I do know that Islam is a false religion. My problem is how to organize Islam in terms of Secularism, Paganism, and what I'll call False Gospels, that use the truth to lead astray just as much as secularity or paganism.

Put another way, is Islam in fact a "heresy," though I hate that term for historical reasons. Or is Islam better put in the camp of the Pagan?

I guess a more straightforward question would be: Is Islam more a Pagan religion or is it more a pseudo-Christian "heresy."
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ALL of them are "anti-Christ."

There is no value in any.
 
S

Steven Yeadon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Earth Wind and Fire said:
So what do you need a Baptist Church for?
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For one, to contribute to the Body of Christ so that we are all mature to be like him (Ephesians 4:11-16)

So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

To be sharpened, to have fellowship, and much more. I guess I honestly fail to make sense of your question.
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Earth Wind and Fire said:
My sister was a cerebral palsey, so how did she hear?
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The same way my deaf son heard... God changed his heart!... Brother Glen:)

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Now some may say well this pertains to Gods people Israel in Egypt and I agree it does but before God changed you're heart you were also in Egypt!
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Steven Yeadon said:
A very astute point that answers my original question well.
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You haven’t the vaguest notion how God works. So tell me Mr. Christian, how did He work in Moses, in David, in Paul? Did He have mercy on the adulteress who those godly people were supposed to stone to death...or to the Pharisee Saul of Tarsus or how bout the Thief on the cross? Is God the measure of all things to you...yes you personally or do you believe in some magic place you must belong in order to be one of His own?

I fervently believe in the Doctrine of Election....read my signature for verification, “were it not for God having chosen some, heaven would have none.”
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Steven Yeadon said:
I do know that Islam is a false religion. My problem is how to organize Islam in terms of Secularism, Paganism, and what I'll call False Gospels, that use the truth to lead astray just as much as secularity or paganism.

Put another way, is Islam in fact a "heresy," though I hate that term for historical reasons. Or is Islam better put in the camp of the Pagan?

I guess a more straightforward question would be: Is Islam more a Pagan religion or is it more a pseudo-Christian "heresy."
Click to expand...

Fair warning my young Christian brother... You have been going from tangent to tangent on this board... Stick to the Bible... You keep messing with this stuff, it's going to mess with you!... Take heed!... Brother Glen:)
 
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