Atonement sparks discussion at NOBTS forum

It is beyond time that you stopped repeating this utter falsehood.
I spent a huge amount of time giving the Scriptural evidence for Penal Substitution and you never engaged with any of it.
Do you want me to copy and paste the thing again?

 

We sometimes get in trouble using human reasoning and logic and then try to put God into a mold of our own making, trying to make sense of His doings.

"If God has done X then He must do Y".
"If God hasn't done A He cannot do B".

And several other permutations of which I am guilty.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.

Ecclesiastes 8:17 then I saw all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. For though a man labors to discover it, yet he will not find it; moreover, though a wise man attempts to know it, he will not be able to find it.

I believe this is still true even today with the indwelling Holy Spirit to help us - though a wise man think to know it, yet shall he not be able to find it.

HankD

 

God was bound to uphold His own righteousness. '....By no means clearing the guilty' (Exodus 34:7). 'He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD' (Proverbs 17:15). 'That He might be just and the justifier of the one who believes in Jesus' (Romans 3:26). God must punish the wicked, and so Christ was made sin (2 Corinthians 5:21)-- that is, He had all our sins laid upon Him (Isaiah 53:6) and He bore the punishment for them (Isaiah 53:5, 10; 1 Peter 2:24).

I am sick to death of hearing about Calvin-- and Justin Martyr come to that. These are just a few of the texts that I have quoted time and time again, and I expect you to deal with each one individually if you want to establish your case and stop stonewalling by making blanket denials without a single text of Scripture.

 

So true!

HankD

 

You must think God had a limited supply that was efficient for only a very few, and miserly doled out to only the elect.

Did Not Christ shed His blood for sinners, for the the ungodly?

Not a single place does Scripture state the blood was ONLY for the elect.

Yet it does state just the opposite.

Do you consult Scriptures?

The Scriptures do not support atonement limited by blood.

The limit established by God is belief. That in which God has total authority to endow to whom He purposes to salvation

Prove me wrong by Scripture.

Or, do you merely desire to denigrate by inappropriate label that has no true application hoping that such might weaken the statement of Scriptures?

 

The supply was actually limited. Christ was human; therefore He had about 1.5 gallons of blood, but the supply is not the point.

Christ did not come to save all men. That is clear; therefore, His blood did not cover (atone for) the sin of every person. If it had there would be no condemnation for any. If we say that Christ died for a man, we understand that man is saved from condemnation.

Not all men are saved; therefore, Christ did not die for all men. That's simple. The truth often is. Religion often complicates things.

 

You have formed nothing but human desire for retribution and retaliation by a man centered THEORY which is not foundational to Scripture.

Such a claim that I am forming heretical view is not tolerable.

Prove by any verse, a passage, a book, the whole course of Scripture, the validity of your theory, or recant and embrace the truth.

 

Ok, professor.

However, it is my view that the efficiency and sufficiency thinking is not completely sustainable by Scripture, and can be considered as a way to try to bridge between the unscriptural view of reformed limited atonement and the Scriptural view that the blood was shed for all sin, of all people of all time.

 

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Psalms 145:20 - The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Galatians 6:7 - Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

James 1:15 - Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

2 Corinthians 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

Acts 3:19 - Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 2:6-10 - Who will render to every man according to his deeds: (Read More...)

2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Read what I said again. I criticized the method of picking verses, rather than forming thoughts based on a broad reading of holy scripture.

 

Helpful comment.

 

You are placing salvation as limited to blood.

That is not the Scripture teaching.

You are also attempting to limit the death to be for a few, again not supported by Scripture.

“Christ came to seek and to save the lost.. “ are there any ever that were righteous on their own and not lost?

Your statements do not have the support of Scripture.

 

Yet that is exactly 2hatbyou attempted very poorly to present in this post.

The “broad reading of Holy Scripture” does not support limiting the blood to the few.

 

Actually, God made the rules regarding this subject.

Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. (Hebrews 9:22 ESV)