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One more reason why I can't be Southern Baptist

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rebel1, Dec 10, 2017.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Sure ... there are 0 SBC churches in my area of New Jersey
     
  2. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for the explanation. I'm surprised at this method as I don't see anything like it prescribed or demonstrated in the NT. Do you have some biblical backing for this practice?
     
  3. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    Okay, thanks.
     
  4. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Yes, the Northern New Jersey Southern Baptist association has just fifty churches!

    www.njersey.net/page/our_churches

    There is no New Jersey state convention, the northern half (above) was assigned to the New York convention, while the south remains pegged onto Pennsylvania:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Northern NJ, used to be part of the Metropolitan (NY City) Baptist Association, however eight years ago, they became their own association
    They currently have 50 affiliated churches and is in fellowship with the (Southern) Baptist Convention of New York
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  7. Rebel1

    Rebel1 Active Member

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    I disagree. And I'll go with the early church over the Magisterial Reformers.
     
  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I don’t think a PSA that includes the wrath of God poured out upon the Son, and abandonment of the Son, and the Limit of atonement being a limit of blood so there was only enough for the elect is “the best per Scriptures.”

    Particularly when the Scriptures do not support that thinking.
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    It’s in sad, sad....did I say, sad shape.
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I've been reading the SBC position here, and I think you have less to be concerned about than you may initially think. Having not defined Penal Substitution except by what is affirmed in the statement (all which are correct) it looks like they are addressing the movement towards non-violent atonement (the contemporary Mennonite theories of men like Weaver). For an example, compare the Penal Substitution Theory of R.C. Sproul to that of N.T. Wright. Both affirm Penal Substitution but they are worlds apart.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I prefer to go with jesus and paul!
     
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That is due to Sproul affirming it, while Wright does not!
     
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  13. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Uh....no, they both hold a very different PSA theory but both affirm a PSA theory. So did Karl Barth and by your definition Justin Martyr.

    For your edification: Don't Tell Me N.T. Wright Denies "Penal Substitution"

    Now, don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean that I agree with N.T. Wright, or Karl Barth, or Sproul. It just means your understanding doesn't corner the market. Some can actually defend their PSA via Scripture.
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he denies the way that it has been theological defined since time of the Reformation, correct?
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, actually he doesn't. He does depart in terms of Justification, but not in terms of theories of the Atonement. Looking at a few articles, it seems he does hold mostly to Christus Victor, which is and has been the most popular view. But he is closer to your view than is Justin Martyr (who you claim held to PSA), so you have no room to argue against him on this point (that he holds a version of PSA).That would be like arguing Calvin didn't hold to PSA because he believed in baptizing infants.

    I'm still waiting for the passage where you claim Isaiah said Jesus was stricken by God and Paul said God cursed Jesus. So you'll have to forgive me if "I prefer to go with Jesus and Paul" holds very little weight.
     
  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    You all ain't southern. Y'all is Southern. Historically, you all is more border state thing. A little further North gets you to youins.
    But, I get the joke. Funny.
     
  19. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    And they say that Calvinists have no sense of humor. . . You've ruined a good joke. Why???
     
  20. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    You all ain't southern.
     
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