Confusion on just what is PSA

Because it would seem he became more enamoured wth Scripture truth and understanding that more often “theories” are prejudiced by events, politics, prophetic view, and hindrance of the Holy Spirit.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with true investigation of these matters and allowing the Scriptures to be ascendant in the process of changing ones view and mind.

 

God wrath is towards sins that have happened, as breaking of His law demands punishment correct?

 

I thought you posted that Christ suffered the wrath of God. Does current sinners not enjoy the results of the resolve?

Are you posting that the suffering of Christ was insufficient to resolve all sins, past, present, and future?

Or are you posting that only partial sins are resolved?

Can you find a Scripture that states that Christ’s suffering resolved the sin issue?

 

No, the death of jesus was for ALL sins ever committed, but only for the elect, as only they are effectual applied that coverage and grace!

 

And you cannot find Scripture for this thinking?

Seems to me that the Scriptures state that the blood was shed for the sins, that death is the wages of sin(s), and that the resurrection is a display of victory over both sin and death.

 

I know that they both believed that Christ was made a curse for us, and neither of them believed that it was the elves or the pixies who made Him a curse. Clearly there are differences. Luther was a Lutheran and Calvin.....wasn't.

 

Once more.
Psalm 7:11. 'God is angry with sinners every day.'
2 Corinthians 5:21. ' God made [Christ] to be sin for us.'
Therefore
God's judicial anger (wrath) against sin was poured out upon Christ on the cross so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. This does not mean that God hated Christ or anything silly like that. His wrath was not against Christ but against sin and came upon Christ as the sin-bearer.

Not quite sure what you mean here. Punishment for sin is all over the OT. Also read Revelation 15 & 16.

Punishment for sinners outside of Christ is eternal. Christ's sufferings on the cross were deemed by the Father to be sufficient to atone for the sins of all believers. At the 9th hour, the sun re-appeared and our Lord cried out, "It is finished!" And it was.

We've covered this before. The blood stands for the death. In the Lord's supper we commemorate the broken body as well as the shed blood.

 

Thanks for this, Y1. Very helpful!

 

What you do not answer is who made Him a curse.

 

There is a fundamental difference between being a sinner and being made sin.

Because you blend these as one, you attend to the crucifixion from that perspective.

However, such is not the presentation of Scripture.

Christ made sin never became a sinner.

Therefore, the wrath of God you desire to be poured out upon God is non-existent.

Perhaps you can definitively show Christ sinned? Lusted, had pride of life. Where these not the matters of temptation He faced in the wilderness?

Then God could pour out wrath upon Himself

Certainly. Never stated otherwise.

However, punishment was never a resolve for sin, but a tool of instruction of righteousness.

There is only one resolve for the sin issue.

Blood

Not punishment

If it were punishment then the RCC and Mormons are correct with their view as “hell” being a temporary place where purging of sin resolved the matter of being reconciled.

No disagreement.

Not true.

Christ did NOT bleed to death.

He bled in the garden (symbolic of Eden), He bled in the temple (symbolic of religious authority), He bleed in the palace (symbolic of judicial/governmental authority), He bled befor the people as he stumbled in the streets (symbolic of common/economic authority) and He bled on the cross as His wounds were reopened each time He lifted Himself up to exhale (symbolic of the reconciliation authority of God to man).

Christ “gave up the Spirit” on purpose, it was not taken from Him

And Yes, I covered this before.

Without the blood, the death would have no effect. The resurrection would have been no better then any other raised from death.

With out the blood shed, (from garden to tree) there would be no forgiveness of sin.

 

So it was the fairies and the pixies after all.
Fortunately, I am able to help you out here. 'Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief.' 'For He who is hanged is cursed by God.' When we speak of 'the LORD' and of 'God' we obviously mean the Triune God which includes the Lord Jesus. You spoke in your post #39 of a 'covenantal righteousness.' You did not elaborate, but I certainly see Penal Substitution as being covenantal. P.S. has its origin in the Everlasting Covenant (or 'council of Redemption') before the beginning of time. 'And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been determined' (Luke 22:22). Determined when and by whom if not by the Triune God in the Everlasting Covenant? The Lord Jesus willingly came in the likeness of sinful flesh in order to became sin and a curse for us, and suffered the wrath of God towards sin that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

Absolutely! Christ was made sin for us but He never became a sinner.

I don't and I don't

I don't think you'll find it is. It may help you to read my post #75

Just to be absolutely clear: the Lord Jesus never sinned. Perhaps you would like to show me where I have ever said that He did?

1 Thessalonians 1:9. 'These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.'

Please read Matthew 20:17-19. If the shedding of blood and not punishment were the issue, why did the Lord Jesus have to suffer such terrible things?

 

We can certainly agree that both those texts are in the Bible. And what teaching do you draw from them and why do you think they are an answer to my post #75?

 

While it is true that Luther saw it in a fashion like Jon C does now, he also saw it same as calvin, as Jesus in our place suffering same way at hand of God as we all would have!