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Is water baptism only a symbol and public profession?
- Thread starter Rebel1
- Start date
No. I means I was never part of a church that came out of Rome after failing to "reform" the Great Harlot.
A Catholic Priest once asked me "Where was your church before the Reformation?" I answered, "Being persecuted by your Church." He didn't like the answer.
I could agree with you but then both of us would be wrong.Well, we will just have to agree to disagree. Won't we?
Christ's baptism wasn't the believers' baptism we practice. It was a mikvah, a ritual cleansing bath, to consecrate Him and prepare Him for His ministry.
What is "believer's baptism"? I've not come across that term in my study.
Jesus was baptized by John. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance.
That's odd, since it's a very common phrase.
No, Jesus' baptism was a ritual cleansing bath called a mikvah, which was to consecrate Him for His ministry, not a baptism of repentance.
I'm not arguing that it's is a common phrase. "God helps those who help themselves" is a common phase. My point was, it's nowhere to be found in the texts.
As far as John's baptism, I look to scripture to define it. "And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance. . .”
Is the word "Trinity" found in the texts?
And where did Paul say Jesus' baptism was a baptism of repentance? What is it you believe Jesus had to repent of?
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your theological dictionary!I could agree with you but then both of us would be wrong.
Let me begin by saying that I agree with most of the previous comments. And I also disagree with them.
Is baptism symbolic? Yes, it recapitulates the death, burial and resurrection of our Savior.
Is it only symbolic? Only if you think it is. Moderns agree to so many things — from software agreements to tax forms to privacy agreements to wedding vows — that it's difficult to understand that some gestures are solemn vows.
But Baptism is a solemn vow, just like wedding vows used to be. You are putting yourself on the line. Baptism now is too often an informal gesture. The early Christians the early English Baptists knew better. By embracing baptism they were casting their lot with people who might be persecuted and surely would be shunned.
Does it confer grace? No, if you think that baptism will save you. Yes, if you, by solemn vow, have consciously entered into a new life and are strengthened by the gracious means that God has given you to demonstrate that you are indeed risen to walk in newness of life.
Is baptism symbolic? Yes, it recapitulates the death, burial and resurrection of our Savior.
Is it only symbolic? Only if you think it is. Moderns agree to so many things — from software agreements to tax forms to privacy agreements to wedding vows — that it's difficult to understand that some gestures are solemn vows.
But Baptism is a solemn vow, just like wedding vows used to be. You are putting yourself on the line. Baptism now is too often an informal gesture. The early Christians the early English Baptists knew better. By embracing baptism they were casting their lot with people who might be persecuted and surely would be shunned.
Does it confer grace? No, if you think that baptism will save you. Yes, if you, by solemn vow, have consciously entered into a new life and are strengthened by the gracious means that God has given you to demonstrate that you are indeed risen to walk in newness of life.
It is an outward testimony to the inward spiritual salvation in Christ already done by God!
God took note of it, and that's what matters.
1 Take heed that ye do not your righteousness before men, to be seen of them: else ye have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
4 that thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee.
18 that thou be not seen of men to fast, but of thy Father who is in secret: and thy Father, who seeth in secret, shall recompense thee. Mt 6
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But John initially would not baptize Jesus, and saying, "I have need of being baptized of thee, and Thou comest to Me?" Jesus, Who needed no repentence, replied, "Suffer it to be so." IMO, #26 has the right idea, reinforced by the Father's comment afterwards.
I am a Baptist, having been duly baptized by immersion by a pastor. BUT I WAS ALREADY SAVED! If an unsaved person is baptized, the result is merely a wet sinner.
And my baptism didn't wash away one of my sins. Jesus had already taken care of that!
But my baptism was a PUBLIC STATEMENT OF MY CHRISTIANITY. It showed I was obeying the Scriptuiral command to be baptized if possible. as it was possible, I was baptized, simple as THAT.
But again, JESUS had already saved me. And He alse saved the repentant thief on the cross who couldn't possibly have been baptized.
Yes, baptism is a public expression of one's faith and commitment to JESUS.
And my baptism didn't wash away one of my sins. Jesus had already taken care of that!
But my baptism was a PUBLIC STATEMENT OF MY CHRISTIANITY. It showed I was obeying the Scriptuiral command to be baptized if possible. as it was possible, I was baptized, simple as THAT.
But again, JESUS had already saved me. And He alse saved the repentant thief on the cross who couldn't possibly have been baptized.
Yes, baptism is a public expression of one's faith and commitment to JESUS.
Again, baptizing an unsaved person produces only a wet sinner.
With the exception of Jesus Himself, everyone who has been legitimately baptized was an already-saved person, & therefore a believer.
So then, why was Jesus baptized when He hadn't sinned? Because He wanted to set an example, and He was to do everything that's good. Remember, John was hesitant to baptize Him, knowing who He was, but after Jesus' explanation, he did baptize Him.
I agree that it can be that, but it must also be other than that, or more than that. How was the Ethiopian eunuch's baptism a public expression of faith? There was no "public".
Keep in mind that Acts is a transitional book. Many of the things that happened in Acts are not normative for the church today. The Ethiopian eunuch was baptized by an Apostle, not a local pastor. He probably had an entourage with him, so his baptism would have been witnessed by others. He was baptized outside of the local church, which is not normative for today. Not everything is at it seems.
He was baptized by Philip the evangelist.
8:39-40 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing. But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he kept preaching the gospel to all the cities until he came to Caesarea.
21:8-9 On the next day we left and came to Caesarea, and entering the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, we stayed with him. Now this man had four virgin daughters who were prophetesses.