The Rod of Iron Rule....when is it? How does it work?

[Iconoclast]

Agedman said;

There is no “hordes of evil,” men. But fallen men who must submit to the rule of Christ, for any rebelliousness is immediately and thoroughly resolved. Hence the term applied to that rule as being with “a rod of iron.”

I asked;
Sinners sin every day...so how do you see the rod of iron rule actually operating?
Later JOJ offered this;

The purpose of the Millennial reign of Christ is not to convince Mankind of anything. What Christ will prove is that Mankind is still rebellious and depraved, even after 1000 years of perfect rule. This glorifies God, because then it becomes obvious that only God can help us, and only Jesus can redeem us.

The rule will be perfect in that we will have a perfect King, and therefore His rule will be perfect.

People may rebel in their hearts, but justice will always be perfect, and no one will get away with anything criminal, though they may sin short of criminal activity.

After the tribulation, only the redeemed will enter the Millennium, but even under the perfect rule of Christ, parents will fail, and not win their children to Christ. Those children will rebel, but not be allowed to do so politically. Then, God will allow Satan to deceive people at the very end of the Millennium, thus once more glorifying Himself. His power is awesome and compete, and even Satan and billions of rebels cannot assail it. Mankind is depraved and hateful, but God is holy and love. All glory be to God.

My question here is...is there any biblical support of this idea? is this even a possibility?
How is the GLORIFIED LORD JESUS CHRIST on earth with sinners who are sinning all around Him, somehow a level of sin is okay, but other sin is not okay?

 

[Iconoclast]

I believe the rod of iron rule is being exercised right now.
Every sin ,even every idle word we speak will be punished in full.
The long suffering of God is the only reason that the nation's are not mightily corrected right now.
The gospel is still going worldwide and will spread from sea to sea gathering in all God intends to save...then cometh the end.

 

[kyredneck]

I believe the rod of iron rule is being exercised right now.

AMEN!

The gospel is still going worldwide and will spread from sea to sea gathering in all God intends to save...then cometh the end.

AMEN!

 

[Iconoclast]

from around the web;

Here is Gill's commentary on the Rev 12:5 passage
Rev 12:5
And she brought forth a man child - Representing, according to the view above taken, the church in its increase and prosperity - as if a child were born that was to rule over all nations. See the notes on Rev_12:2.

Who was to rule all nations - That is, according to this view, the church thus represented was destined to reign in all the earth, or all the earth was to become subject to its laws. Compare the notes on Dan_7:13-14.

With a rod of iron - The language used here is derived from Psa_2:9;

more confusion here;

My understanding of this time is during the thousand year rein of Christ. All world governments will be subject to his rule of righteousness. It will be a rule of righteousness and not party politics. This will really bother those who grate under his authority and why the devil will be able to deceive and gather many to himself when he is released for a season. This won't be for long though as he and all his coherts will be defeated and thrown into the lake of fire. Even so come Lord Jesus.

Ruling with a rod of iron typifies an intolerant reign. The Bible tells us that the Millennium will be theocracy where Jesus will rule from Israel on the throne of David. Torah will be enforced and the nations of the earth will come from Sabbath to Sabbath and from New Moon to New Moon to worship the Lord.

I think the idea of intolerant reign or dictatorial rule is what is meant - but I heard it said that the rod of iron represents capital punishment which correlates nicely with it.

These seem to be very bad web theology....

 

[Iconoclast]

Here is historic premill..R.Todd Mangum;
Secondly, Christ's return is described as a cataclysmic event inaugurating a period in which He "rules with a rod of iron" (Rev. 19:15; Rev. 12:5; Rev. 2:26-27). Why would such a "rod of iron" be necessary in the eternal state, when all the enemies of God are disposed of in the Lake of Fire? Rather, as premillennialists have traditionally suggested, the Bible's description of Christ's post-second coming reign seems to be of a time when Christ is firmly in control, but He also still has enemies that He must persistently and vigilantly suppress in the exercise of His righteous authority. I.e., the biblical picture of the future is one in which a "silver age" of Christ's millennial reign precedes the "golden age" of the eternal state.

Here is a response by Greg Strawbridge;

3) Rod of Iron. Dr. Mangum argues that only the premillennial conception of the millennial reign satisfies the image of Christ ruling with a rod of iron [Ps. 2:9] (He cites Rev. 19:15; Rev. 12:5; Rev. 2:26-27). On the contrary, according to the NT, Christ is ruling with a “rod of iron” now since Psalm 2 is interpreted as a present reality by the apostles (Acts 4:25-26, 13:33, Heb. 5:5). He now reigns from Zion’s holy hill (v. 1-6; 1 Pet. 3:22), inheriting the nations (v. 8, Mt. 28:19-20), “breaking” all those who do not bow the knee. This is the image of “rod of iron” (v. 9). Kings who do not to “kiss the Son” are crushed to pieces (witness Herod, Acts 12:23). The “rod of iron” imagery from Psalm 2:9 is no different than Psalm 110:1-2: “Sit at My right hand. . . The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion. Rule in the midst of Your enemies!” Surely there is no millennial gap between Psalm 110:1 and Psalm 110:2. Jesus Himself, uses the parallel image of Psalm 2:9, “breaking to pieces,” in reference to the kingdom being taken from the Jews (Mt. 21:43-44). Fall on Jesus and be broken or He will crush you.

 

[TCassidy]

Why would such a "rod of iron" be necessary in the eternal state, when all the enemies of God are disposed of in the Lake of Fire?

A wrong assumption leads to a wrong conclusion.

 

[Iconoclast]

A wrong assumption leads to a wrong conclusion.

I was quoting R.Todd Mangum....that was his statement...
TC, what are your thoughts on the rod of Iron rule....when is it, how does it work?

 

[TCassidy]

I was quoting R.Todd Mangum....that was his statement...
TC, what are your thoughts on the rod of Iron rule....when is it, how does it work?

Mangum makes two unwarranted assumptions that make his conclusion incorrect.

 

[Iconoclast]

Mangum makes two unwarranted assumptions that make his conclusion incorrect.

I agree....just trying to offer ideas men have offered to promote discussion...i am very open to any biblical imput....he is a well educated person;
Todd Mangum received the John F. Walvoord Award for Outstanding Work in Eschatology from Dallas Theological Seminary where he received his PhD in 2001. Dr. Mangum’s first book, The Dispensational-Covenantal Rift (Waynesboro, GA: Paternoster, 2007), is widely acclaimed as providing a definitive history on the debate between dispensationalists and covenant theologians. He has also written numerous articles seeking to repair breaches among various segments of Bible-believing Christianity, and advancing a generously orthodox, missional approach to theology and ministry in the postmodern, post-Christian context.

Dr. Mangum is ordained by the Southern Baptist Convention and he serves frequently as pulpit supply in several area churches; he is also an active churchman at Grace Bible Church, Souderton. Todd and his wife, Linda, reside in Souderton, PA, as do their three sons and one daughter-in-law.


EDUCATION

 

[agedman]

There is more Scriptures as far as prophecy statements concerning the millennial reign in comparison to the eternal state of what is prepared for believers after the final judgement.

There are more Scriptures as far as prophecy statements concerning the millennial reign in comparison to the eternal state of what is prepared for the "devil and his angels" and the unbelievers.

There are more Scriptures as far as prophecy statements concerning the millennial reign in comparison to the church age.

Yet, the millennium and now even a characteristic of the age is being discarded.

Perhaps there was never a church age following the 70AD diaspora.

Satan is bound, God has put all the enemies of Christ under His feet, there is no rebellion no more sorrow, believers are in their eternal estate, and the marriage supper has already taken place.

Prove to me any of these are factual.

How are these going to work their place in history?

What proof is there that these things will even happen?

"Is there biblical support" for these things?

 

[HankD]

The Rod of Iron Rule....when is it? How does it work?

Um Anytime one holds it in the hand and wacks the offender with it modifying the behavior of said offender.


HankD

 

[Iconoclast]

There is more Scriptures as far as prophecy statements concerning the millennial reign in comparison to the eternal state of what is prepared for believers after the final judgement.

There are more Scriptures as far as prophecy statements concerning the millennial reign in comparison to the eternal state of what is prepared for the "devil and his angels" and the unbelievers.

There are more Scriptures as far as prophecy statements concerning the millennial reign in comparison to the church age.

Yet, the millennium and now even a characteristic of the age is being discarded.

Perhaps there was never a church age following the 70AD diaspora.

Satan is bound, God has put all the enemies of Christ under His feet, there is no rebellion no more sorrow, believers are in their eternal estate, and the marriage supper has already taken place.

Prove to me any of these are factual.

How are these going to work their place in history?

What proof is there that these things will even happen?

"Is there biblical support" for these things?

Hello a g, it is redeemed man that is doing all these things in the Earth right now as we speak according to Hebrews 2:5-8the writer of the Hebrews quotes from
Psalm 8 discussing what is man that thou art mindful of him now we see in the context of chapter 2 which redeemed man who God has called to accomplish this work as we go with the Great Commission that's the short answer but I'll answer more in detail when I get to my keyboard later.
We see not yet all things put under him

 

[Iconoclast]

The Rod of Iron Rule....when is it? How does it work?

Um Anytime one holds it in the hand and wacks the offender with it modifying the behavior of said offender.


HankD

Do you think that would be the work of the church and doing some of that?

 

[agedman]

Hello a g, it is redeemed man that is doing all these things in the Earth right now as we speak according to Hebrews 2:5-8the writer of the Hebrews quotes from
Psalm 8 discussing what is man that thou art mindful of him now we see in the context of chapter 2 which redeemed man who God has called to accomplish this work as we go with the Great Commission that's the short answer but I'll answer more in detail when I get to my keyboard later.
We see not yet all things put under him

Like I posted, more Scriptures concerning the millennium then the church age.

That some desire to appoint the church at THIS time as having the responsibility given to it at THAT time is merely attempting to refuse acknowledgement of a true millennial reign.

If one considers that there are statements of the millennium that apply to the age yet to come, then there is no inconsistency with acknowledging the mission of the church now and the mission then. The rule of the church now and that yet to come. The victory of the church now in comparison to that then.

 

[agedman]

Do you think that would be the work of the church and doing some of that?

Nope.

The church is not given the authority to rule this world with a rod of iron at this time (unless you are papist in thinking).

This is repeated by Christ in statements that the believers are to be persecuted and killed. Paul said, as sheep for slaughter.

However, there will be a time, a time in which Christ will rule with an iron rod, and believers shall judge just as the Scriptures state in 1 Corinthians 6:2.

 

[Iconoclast]

Like I posted, more Scriptures concerning the millennium then the church age.

That some desire to appoint the church at THIS time as having the responsibility given to it at THAT time is merely attempting to refuse acknowledgement of a true millennial reign.

If one considers that there are statements of the millennium that apply to the age yet to come, then there is no inconsistency with acknowledging the mission of the church now and the mission then. The rule of the church now and that yet to come. The victory of the church now in comparison to that then.

What if it is the Millennium is now. You say there's so many verses about the Millennium what if it's meant to be for right now and we're in it and enjoying the fruits of it the peace of God that passes all understanding what about it Romans 14 the kingdom of God is righteousness joy and peace in the Holy Ghost what if that's all now?
What if passages like Isaiah 11 or metaphorical and symbolic language to demonstrate the reversal of the curse that's found in the kingdom of God or the peace of God demonstrated by animals that normally would be hostile being calm not literally that the animals are calm and so on but what it what if it's meant to just convey the image of the peace that we have in Christ?

 

[Iconoclast]

Now in another thread I believe it was you that said well in the literal one Thousand-Year Millennium Christ will rule with a rod of iron and keep it under control now the question is how exactly does that take place a person is working somewhere and then he's going he's tempted to steal or what do something there's an angel show up and and put cuffs on them or you knows I don't know how we'll just see how this can happen?
I see no indication and scripture of some literal framework where you have unsaved people, angels ,and non glorified people in the same space at the same time with people who are unsaved because they're able to rebel at the end of this thousand year. So you have a good many unsaved people coexisting on Earth how does this happen?

I believe we have that situation on earth now you have Angels who are present but invisible you have Saints or going about being faithful preaching the gospel and you have unsaved people who resist and Rebel and fight against the kingdom of God. Now the rod of iron rule like I said earlier I believe is that God is going to punish all sin even Every Idle word that men speak he keeps account and at the judgement it will all be righteously judged by God

 

[Iconoclast]

Nope.

The church is not given the authority to rule this world with a rod of iron at this time (unless you are papist in thinking).

This is repeated by Christ in statements that the believers are to be persecuted and killed. Paul said, as sheep for slaughter.

However, there will be a time, a time in which Christ will rule with an iron rod, and believers shall judge just as the Scriptures state in 1 Corinthians 6:2.

When Believers declare the law of God the law word of God much in the same way as John the Baptist confronted the king about his adulterous and fornicating lifestyle don't you think that has anything to do with the rule of God in this world?

 

[agedman]

What if it is the Millennium is now. You say there's so many verses about the Millennium what if it's meant to be for right now and we're in it and enjoying the fruits of it the peace of God that passes all understanding what about it Romans 14 the kingdom of God is righteousness joy and peace in the Holy Ghost what if that's all now?
What if passages like Isaiah 11 or metaphorical and symbolic language to demonstrate the reversal of the curse that's found in the kingdom of God or the peace of God demonstrated by animals that normally would be hostile being calm not literally that the animals are calm and so on but what it what if it's meant to just convey the image of the peace that we have in Christ?

Why not take the prophecies concerning the birth, death and resurrection of Christ as symbolic?

Because they are past?

Because they have been evidently fulfilled?

If those were true, why not those that are not yet evidenced?

Certainly, one can try to "spiritualize" all manner of things, even try to escape the judgement, or eternal lake of fire, or present sinful living.

However, if one is to accept the truthfulness of statements concerning the first advent, and then try to spiritualize the second, it is most inconsistent.

Reminds me a bit of those sadduccees who spiritualized the resurrection to the point of no longer believing in such an event.

 

[agedman]

When Believers declare the law of God the law word of God much in the same way as John the Baptist confronted the king about his adulterous and fornicating lifestyle don't you think that has anything to do with the rule of God in this world?

Nope.

Such a presentation at this time is a matter much exampled as what Paul did with any of his presentations.

Does not Romans 1 and 2 give that EVERY person has the law written upon their hearts? (That which is known of God is evident in them and to them?)

The presentation of the Millennium is not that of one being reconciled to God through Faith (assured hope of that not yet seen), though that certainly will occur but as a result of sight and not assured hope as is that found in believers of this age.