Preterism - Proven False !

[robycop3]

I believe the combination of Scripture and history have proven preterism false.

Full preterism is defined as the belief that all Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled.

Partial preterism is defined as the belief that all Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled except the return of Jesus.

However, history proves both are wrong.

The ONLY thing that could sustain either view is the historical proof that the prophesied events have all occurred. But those events are totally-absent from history. No getting around that FACT.

We see the prophecies that HAVE been fulfilled were done so LITERALLY, TO THE LETTER. There's simply no valid reason to not believe the others won't be fulfilled JUST-AS-LITERALLY AND EXACTLY.

For instance, there are several prophecies about a great 'man of sin' who will rule a vast empire covering most of the world, and who will declare himself to be God. Not happened yet.

Also, Jesus, and others, prophesied that a great tribulation will come upon the world, worse than any in history before, or in the future. Right now, WW2 holds the title as the worst, but it didn't cover the whole world, and obviously, Jesus didn't return immediately after it ended. many details of the coming trib are given in the Revelation.

All Christians should denounce preterism as false. There's simply NO FACTS supporting it.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe the combination of Scripture and history have proven preterism false.

Full preterism is defined as the belief that all Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled.

Partial preterism is defined as the belief that all Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled except the return of Jesus.

However, history proves both are wrong.
.

That is true.

I have suspected that if I hang around here long enough you would say something that is correct. So now lets see how you show your position to be true - by the Bible. This will be interesting because here is a case where we both agree.

 

[BobRyan]

For instance, there are several prophecies about a great 'man of sin' who will rule a vast empire covering most of the world, and who will declare himself to be God. Not happened yet.

I assume you meant to quote 2 Thess 2 here.

Also, Jesus, and others, prophesied that a great tribulation will come upon the world, worse than any in history before, or in the future. .

I assume you meant to quote Matthew 24 here and to show that great persecution did arise in the dark ages after the time of Christ - and an even greater (though not lasting for century upon century) is yet in the future.

 

[robycop3]

That is true.

I have suspected that if I hang around here long enough you would say something that is correct. So now lets see how you show your position to be true - by the Bible. This will be interesting because here is a case where we both agree.

EASY!

There are so many prophesied events that haven't yet occurred. For instance, Paul wrote that Jesus won't return til the "man of sin" comes in 2 Thess.2. And Rev. 13 goes into detail about that man & his empire, & his deputy, who will be a miracle-working false prophet. Obviously, these men haven't yet come.

In the Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24, Luke 21) Jesus prophesied the worst tribulation in history would come, & Revelation makes it plain it'll come while the antichrist is in power. Many of its events are described in the revelation's narratives about the seals, trumpets, & bowls of plagues. And Jesus also said that IMMEDIATELY AFTER this trib, there'll be a great cosmological disturbance during which He will return.

Obviously, none of those events have yet occurred!

 

[robycop3]

Seems the preterists here have given up trying to buck Scripture & history.

 

[robycop3]

For awhile we had some preterists attempting to defend their false doctrine, which was like trying to hold water in a sieve. Hopefully, they've taken a closer look at the pret hooey & realized how wrong it is.

 

[Revelation 20:5]

It seems this whole argument between futurists & preterists boils down to the meaning of the time statements made throughout the New Testament. Preterists take the time statements as actually meaning soon or near at the time the statements were written. In other words, a relatively short period of time as opposed to thousands of years into the future. Dispensationalists & other futurists see the time statements as arbitrary or symbolic of a particular dispensation or meaning "imminent" which thus means could happen at any time even thousands of years into the future. I'm going to list several verses with time references below and maybe the readers of this forum will see a pattern.


Matthew 10:23: 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.


Matthew 16:27-28: 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”


Matthew 24:34: 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
(Note: The Greek word for generation in this verse is GENEA" as opposed to GENOS". Futurists have been trying to lump the 2 Greek words together as if they mean the exact same thing.)

Romans: 13:11: And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed

1 Corinthians 7: 29 : 29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short.

Hebrews 1:1-2: 1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. (Note: futurists interpret "these last days" as the entirety of the church age)

Hebrews 8:13:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Hebrews 10:37 : For, “In just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.”

1 Peter 4:7: 7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be alert and of sober mind so that you may pray.

James 5:8-9 8 You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord’s coming is near. 9 Don’t grumble against one another, brothers and sisters, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!
(Note: the Greek word for "near" is ēngiken from the root word eggus which means "near" (in place or time) Strong's Greek: 1451. ἐγγύς (eggus) -- near (in place or time) Very clear from the Greek, no gray area here.

1 John 2:18: 8 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.(Note: futurists see "this is last hour" as the entirety of the church age)

Revelation 1:1: 1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Revelation 1:19 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later
(Note: Futurists have used this verse to explain that the Revelation 1:1 "soon take place" phrase was referring to the events that would soon happen to the 7 churches and that everything after Revelation 3 is in the distant future. Problem with this explanation is: the Greek is very clear that the events that were to take place later in verse 1:19 were ABOUT TO take place at the time Revelation was written: Revelation 1:19 Greek Text Analysis Notice that the Greek word "mellei" means "about to". So the proper translation is: Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and the things that are about to take place later.)

Revelation 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. (The same Greek word "mellei" used in Rev 1:19 is also used in Rev. 17:8: Revelation 17:8 Interlinear: 'The beast that thou didst see: it was, and it is not; and it is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go away to destruction, and wonder shall those dwelling upon the earth, whose names have not been written upon the scroll of the life from the foundation of the world, beholding the beast that was, and is not, although it is.
Proper translation: The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and is ABOUT TO come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.)

Revelation 22:10: 10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. (Note: Greek word "engys" Revelation 22:10 Greek Text Analysis near in place or time)

 

[Covenanter]

The refutation of antipreterism is straightforward, & has been shown many times.

Clearly the pretended literalists reject a literal understanding of the time texts @Revelation 20:5 has listed.

They also insist on a natural, carnal interpretation of Scripture:

1 Cor. 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. ​

There have been many threads advocating "literal interpretation" & deriding "spiritual interpertation." Of course they only see the natural, carnal events happening - they can't see the invisible, spiritual realm. That spiritual sight needs faith.

Rom. 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Col. 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Heb. 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible.
​

There is a whole invisible world, seen by faith:

Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.​

While you insist on the visible you are spiritually blind to the spiritual world.

 

[robycop3]

The ONE thing that NO preterist can get around - the prophesied eschatological events have simply NOT YET HAPPENED!

Prets spend mucho time trying to shoehorn certain historical events into being the fulfillment of eschatological prophecy, but those hippos just won't fly. The fulfillments must be LITERAL, TO-THE-LETTER of the written prophecies.

All those events, from the coming of the man of sin to the physical, visible return of Jesus are yet to be fulfilled. Nothing that has already occurred fits the prophecies.

Thus, preterism, both full & partial, is FALSE.