The Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ 2

[Darrell C]

the fact that you cannot answer that on your own shows your actual illiteracy.

I have already answered them.

Ephesians 3
King James Version (KJV)

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


Do you teach that Jews were baptized into Christ through the Law?

Because you will have to if you teach that Jews (who are the only other group we could insert) were privy to the Mystery.

Don't you understand that Jew and Greek were made one in Christ after Pentecost?


Romans 1:16
King James Version (KJV)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Do you deny that Israel awaited Redemption in Christ as well as the Gentile?


Ephesians 2:13-18
King James Version (KJV)

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;


Do you see that both Jew and Greek are made one in Christ?

And that this was not taking place before?

Again, do you teach that Christ was baptizing Jews into Himself prior to His return to Heaven and the sending of the Promised Spirit?



15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;


Do you deny that both are made...one new man?

If so, you will have to equally conclude that Gentiles are now made Jews, rather than the one new man both are made in Christ.

Now for the redemption of...both:


16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:


Remember, God was in Christ reconciling the world, not Gentiles...unto Himself.

Do you teach that men were being reconciled prior to Christ coming, dying, resurrected, returning to Heaven, and sending the Promised Spirit?

Can you tell me by what means they were reconciled unto God through? I would like to know this other gospel...


17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.


Note that the Jews are said to be in relationship with God, but we both know that was through the Law, which is now obsolete.

Both now have access to God by One Spirit.

And you will not find a single man who had access to God prior to this.

So, still confident in your single, solitary verse you proof text your position on?

But I will address them for you, my friend. Its important you understand this.

See next post.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

The Bible was determined by a preponderance of the church agreeing to it.

Okay, so Catholics are right as well?

What ineffable twaddle.

Orthodoxy has a definition as does heresy.

But which orthodoxy agrees with Scripture? Yours?

I think not.

I suggest you familiarize yourself with them.

And I suggest you familiarize yourself with what Scripture teaches, Your doctrine is grossly in error.


God bless.

 

[Revmitchell]

I have already answered them.




But I will address them for you, my friend. Its important you understand this.

See next post.


God bless.

You proved my point by posting:

"6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"

Other than that it seems you are talking past me by making some assumptions I should understand some point you believe should be common. Not sure what it is but your questions are odd and unclear

 

[Darrell C]

the fact that you cannot answer that on your own shows your actual illiteracy.

Okay, now for the false argument and charge that I "cannot answer my own questions," even though they have already been answered.

Your micro-posting style is making you look foolish.

@TCassidy (wanted to make sure your statements are being discussed, don't want you to think I am talking behind your back)

TCassidy said: ↑
Time to give it up. Every translation I have says the same thing. The "mystery" is that the gentiles are included.

First...included in what?

The first question is an obvious blunder on the part of the one suggesting that Gentile Inclusion is The Mystery.

The obvious basic principle of the New Testament this violates is the suggestion that Jews were already recipients of the Promises bestowed upon those who were inducted into New Covenant Relationship with God. It lacks an understanding that, not only were those in Christ's day under the Law...so was Christ.

So we do not look at the creation of the Church as the Gentiles being "included." Both Jew and Gentile are "included" in Redemption through Christ.


Second...do you or he suggest that Jews were not "included" in receiving the promise?

I cannot answer for the poster, or for you, Revmitchell, but, what is definitely implied is that both of you do not understand what you are talking about. Your position demands that either Jews are not being included at this time, or, that they were being included before, neither of which is true. I hope you have the common sense (which is all that is needed) to see how this denies your position.


Third...do you or he suggest that Jews were being baptized into Christ?

Again, an obvious demand of your position.

No Jew or Gentile were being baptized into Christ prior to Pentecost.

Now, how about you answering the questions, Revmitchell?


God bless.

 

[Revmitchell]

Okay, now for the false argument and charge that I "cannot answer my own questions," even though they have already been answered.

Your micro-posting style is making you look foolish.

You asked two questions you should know the answers to given your position. Since you asked them Ill assume you do not know the answer else you would have communicated them. Do not ask me questions you think you know the answer to. Just communicate the issue without playing games.

 

[Darrell C]

You proved my point by posting:

"6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:"

So you are going to ignore the questions and again reiterate your only proof text.

I will assume my questions and points intimidate your pulpit theology.

And probably most who read this thread will as well.

Other than that it seems you are talking past me by making some assumptions I should understand some point you believe should be common.

How is a simple question "talking past you?"

Answer the questions, Revmitchell.

Not sure what it is but your questions are odd and unclear

How is this...

Romans 16:25-26
King James Version (KJV)

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Is the mystery here...the Gospel of Jesus Christ or no?

Answer that, and we can proceed.

...odd and unclear?

Its a very simple question, Is the mystery here the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Answer the question.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You asked two questions you should know the answers to given your position. Since you asked them Ill assume you do not know the answer else you would have communicated them. Do not ask me questions you think you know the answer to. Just communicate the issue without playing games.

How does whether I answer my own questions or not negate your responsibility to answer them?

You have called me a heretic without supporting that charge, and I am the one playing games?

Set your pride to the side and you just might learn something.

Answer the questions. We both know why you won't: they show you are in error, and you can't allow that to become public knowledge. But guess what...

...it already is.


God bless.

 

[Revmitchell]

Its a very simple question, Is the mystery here the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Answer the question.


God bless.

Brother, I am not sure what your game here is. I have made clear my position. The gospel is not the mystery Paul speaks of. The inclusion of the Gentiles is the mystery. The gospel is as it has always been. I have answered this more than once and you know it. Stop with the childish tactics. You need to move quickly, you are losing credibility.

 

[Revmitchell]

You have called me a heretic without supporting that charge, and I am the one playing games?

I have more than supported the charge. Not only have I shown you and explained scripture to show your error but I have brought in an outside source.

 

[Darrell C]

You asked two questions you should know the answers to given your position.

Here is a simple question, please answer it:

Romans 16:25-26
King James Version (KJV)

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Is the mystery here...the Gospel of Jesus Christ or no?

Answer that, and we can proceed.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Brother, I am not sure what your game here is.

Its no game, its an important issue that you are ignorant of.

All you have to do is answer the questions and respond to the points raised.

I have made clear my position.

Is this how you preach as well? You give a verse to someone and say "Embrace my position!"

The gospel is not the mystery Paul speaks of.

Finally, an answer to my question:


Romans 16:25-26
King James Version (KJV)

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


Is the mystery here...the Gospel of Jesus Christ or no?

Answer that, and we can proceed.


So what is the mystery here?


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

The inclusion of the Gentiles is the mystery.

Not here...

Romans 16:25-26
King James Version (KJV)

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


in view is the stablishing (strengthening) of those he is writing to, and this is...

...according to the Gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the Revelation of the Mystery which was kept secret since the world began.

If you deny that then you deny Scripture. And that is precisely what you are doing.

The only way Gentiles can be included in this is seen in v.26, and all nations are spoken of, which includes Israel, which is just basic to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and salvation in Him.

There is nothing about Gentile Inclusion here, at all.

And that is why you refuse to answer such a simple question, because your doctrine is false and you are incapable of rightly dividing the Word on this issue.


Continued...

 

[Revmitchell]

Not here...

Romans 16:25-26
King James Version (KJV)

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


in view is the stablishing (strengthening) of those he is writing to, and this is...

...according to the Gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the Revelation of the Mystery which was kept secret since the world began.

If you deny that then you deny Scripture. And that is precisely what you are doing.

The only way Gentiles can be included in this is seen in v.26, and all nations are spoken of, which includes Israel, which is just basic to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and salvation in Him.

There is nothing about Gentile Inclusion here, at all.

And that is why you refuse to answer such a simple question, because your doctrine is false and you are incapable of rightly dividing the Word on this issue.


Continued...

Nothing there says the mystery is the gospel. You have a reading comprehension issue here. You need to go back and do a book study on Romans. You have isolated those verses out of their context even in this chapter and so you misunderstand them.

 

[Darrell C]

The gospel is as it has always been.

The Gospel has steadily through the course of man's history been progressively revealed to men.

It looks a little like this:


Genesis 3:15
King James Version (KJV)

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Could Adam and Eve call upon the Name of Jesus Christ?

No.


Genesis 12
King James Version (KJV)


1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


Could Abraham and Sarah call upon the Name of Jesus Christ?

No.

Deuteronomy 18:15
King James Version (KJV)

15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;


Could Moses call on the Name of Jesus Christ?

No.


2 Samuel 7:12-13
King James Version (KJV)

12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.


Could David call upon the Name of Jesus Christ?

No.


Isaiah 53
King James Version (KJV)

1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.


Could the Houses of Israel and Judah call upon the Name of Jesus Christ?

No.



Luke 1:31-35
King James Version (KJV)

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


Could Mary call upon the Name of Jesus Christ?

No.


Matthew 16:20-23
King James Version (KJV)

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.


Could the Disciples call upon the Name of Jesus Christ?

No.

Not until the Gospel was revealed to them:


Acts 1:4-8
King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


As I have mentioned before, what you are not understanding concerning the Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that it was not made manifest to men in past Ages.

That is said over and over, and apparently it is something that conflicts with the doctrines of men you have embraced:


Romans 16:24-26
King James Version (KJV)

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:



1 Corinthians 1:24
King James Version (KJV)

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


1 Corinthians 2:7
King James Version (KJV)

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:


Ephesians 3:2-5
King James Version (KJV)

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


Colossians 1:26-27
King James Version (KJV)

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


Hate to hear yo preach on the Rapture...


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Nothing there says the mystery is the gospel. You have a reading comprehension issue here. You need to go back and do a book study on Romans. You have isolated those verses out of their context even in this chapter and so you misunderstand them.

Simply amazing. I have comprehension issues when Paul makes it clear that his Gospel and preaching of Jesus Christ is according to the Mystery kept secret since the world began.

Good one Revmitchell.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

I have answered this more than once and you know it.

You haven't answered the first point or question posed to you. You know it. I know it. God knows it.

But perhaps you really don't know it.

Stop with the childish tactics.

What is childish about presenting support for my position, which you have deemed heresy?

What is childish is to continue to converse in this thread when obviously it is over your head.

You need to move quickly, you are losing credibility.

From someone who thinks that Doctrine is verified by posting a supportive link...that doesn't worry me too much.

I have more than supported the charge.

Right.

Here, let me bring up your "Support" again:

"Chapter 3.......Paul speaks of the "mystery of Christ" with the Gentiles being brought into membership of the one body with God's ancient people Israel."

"Ephesians"; Introduction to the New Testament -2nd ed; D.A.Carson & Douglas J. Moo; Zondervan Press; (2005) (pg. 479)

I am guessing you "support" the Trinity by showing someone an egg?

Not only have I shown you and explained scripture to show your error but I have brought in an outside source.

You suffer delusion. I am very sorry for you on that count.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Nothing there says the mystery is the gospel. You have a reading comprehension issue here. You need to go back and do a book study on Romans. You have isolated those verses out of their context even in this chapter and so you misunderstand them.

Let me expand the context a little:


Romans 16:24-27
King James Version (KJV)

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.


How is it that more of Romans Chapter 16 makes what Paul states any different?

The Gospel and preaching of Jesus Christ is according to the revelation (I suggest you look that up and learn what that means) of the Mystery which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest (another word you could stand to look up).

Where exactly did you get your post count so high? In the Politics section?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You need to go back and do a book study on Romans.

Could you show me something in Romans that contradicts my position?

Can you show me where Jews were being baptized into Christ prior to Pentecost?

Can you show me that only Gentiles are being baptized into Christ?

You can't show me anything that would show I am isolating anything in Romans 16.

You are a well without water, my friend.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Following up on something that arose from the objections of the peanut gallery, lol, one issue that some seem to overlook is the fact that both Jews and Gentiles received equally of salvation from God. That some would imply that Jews understood the Gospel of Christ makes little sense, but, we have to deal with popular pulpit theology as opposed to what Scripture actually teaches.

And yes, I know this statement sounds offensive, it is intentional, because I want those who limit the Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to stand up and defend their doctrine.

So let's look at something that shows that both Jew and Gentile received salvation equally, and at the same time.

To fill in a little background, Peter is reporting of his trip to the house of Cornelius, where he preaches the Gospel and the Holy Ghost falls on them while he is speaking. We pick it up where Peter relays that after the vision of the sheet, in which God instructs him not call that which God cleanses unclean (and can be seen as insight into Peter's views towards Gentiles), the Spirit bids him go with the men that will come to him:


Acts 11:12-18
King James Version (KJV)

12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.


Note that Cornelius tells them that Peter will tell him words whereby he and his house will be saved. If we look at Acts 10 it becomes clear the "words" are the Gospel of Christ (Acts 10:34-43).

While Peter preaches the Gospel, the Holy Ghost "fell on them," and Peter will define this in his next statement:


16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.


So they were "Baptized with the Holy Ghost," that is what he means by the Spirit "falling on them.

Now we see the equality of the salvation of Cornelius and his house (Gentiles) with the salvation of the Jews:


17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

While some might want to argue as to when the "beginning" is, all we have to do is identify when the Disciples were Baptized with the Holy Ghost, which was "not many days hence" from the time of Christ's last encounter with them (Acts 1:4-8). And what Peter states is that what happened to Cornelius was identical to what happened to them, which shows that we do not consider men as being baptized into Christ prior to Pentecost.


18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


Salvation in Christ is the making alive of that which is dead. Cornelius was made alive in Christ, and the key word for those who want to think that the Gospel was saving men on an eternal basis prior to Pentecost is...

...also.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have already answered them.




But I will address them for you, my friend. Its important you understand this.

See next post.


God bless.

The mystery given and revealed to paul to expound upon was Christ in us Gentiles, our hope of glory, that we who were once not saved , were not included in and part of the redeemed of the Lord!