OSAS does not survive the "Sola Scriptura test" in Matthew 18..etc

The death of Jesus was indeed sufficient in itself to redeem and save all, but only the Elect of God have it effectually applied towards them, as only they were reconciled back to God by it!

 

Since you are either too lazy to even post your own proof texts or are aware that most people are too lazy to look at proof texts, I will show the wresting you do with the Word of God:

First, no-one "after the flesh" are the children of God:


Romans 8:9
King James Version (KJV)

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


So your "point" is absurd.

Second...no-one of Israel was in the Spirit, or received the Spirit until after Christ returned to Heaven after having resurrected:




John 1:11-13
King James Version (KJV)

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


John 7:38-39
King James Version (KJV)

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


John 16:7
King James Version (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


Third...


Romans 9
King James Version (KJV)

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


...we don't see that "Christ is Israel," but that He descended through Israel.

In view is heritage, which descends from Abraham, through Isaac, and the point is...

...they are not children of God through heritage.

The second point is that all who of faith are counted as the seed.

The third point I would suggest is that while Israel is under blindness at this time, that does not change the fact that it was to Israel that numerous promises were made, as noted in v.4.

Gentile Inclusion does not mean Israel Exclusion from the promises of God:


Romans 11
King James Version (KJV)

11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



God will keep His promises to Israel.


Continued...

 

You speak of both the man and the nation here.

No point to be gained here.

First quote:

Joshua 11:10
King James Version (KJV)

10 And Joshua at that time turned back, and took Hazor, and smote the king thereof with the sword: for Hazor beforetime was the head of all those kingdoms.

Nothing in this to say Israel, the person, is a king.

Second quote:


1 Samuel 15:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 And Samuel said, When thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel, and the Lord anointed thee king over Israel?


Nothing in this to say Israel, the person, is a king.

Third quote:


1 Kings 1:35
King James Version (KJV)

35 Then ye shall come up after him, that he may come and sit upon my throne; for he shall be king in my stead: and I have appointed him to be ruler over Israel and over Judah.


Nothing in this to say Israel, the person, is a king.

Fourth quote:


1 Chronicles 11:2
King James Version (KJV)

2 And moreover in time past, even when Saul was king, thou wast he that leddest out and broughtest in Israel: and the Lord thy God said unto thee, Thou shalt feed my people Israel, and thou shalt be ruler over my people Israel.



Nothing in this to say Israel, the person, is a king.

Final proof text:


Psalm 105:20
King James Version (KJV)

20 The king sent and loosed him; even the ruler of the people, and let him go free.


Nothing in this to say Israel, the person, is a king.

No point to be gained here.

It seems you are being deceitful. So I would encourage you to stop being lazy and actually present the proof texts you give to support your doctrine. Then...perhaps you would not give irrelevant texts. And perhaps you might correct a lot of the error you hold to through the oversight of the Word of God.

And I think that is about as much of this nonsense as I can stomach for the time being. Please try to give relevant posts to the issue, rather than trying to push your religion on the members here.

One last thing:

A "Cult" is a group claiming to be Christian who have unbiblical definitions for Christ Himself.

You fit that definition. Sorry.


God bless.

 

Be honest, Bob...we do not agree on this.

You teach loss of salvation which demands something other than Christ for eternal life. Sure, maybe you get eternal life through Christ, but if you don't keep the Law...

...you lose it.

Doesn't that fit you soteriology?

As pointed out in this thread and numerous others, Scripture does not teach adherence to the Covenant of Law, or the Law. We do not keep God's Law to be saved, we keep God's Law because we are saved:


Ezekiel 36:27
King James Version (KJV)

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

What have I to do with Baptist confessions? I can only give account for one Baptist Confession, and that is mine, and it is the Confession of Jesus Christ...

...alone.

Based on Scripture...alone.

Arguing over "moral law" is something cults and religionists do.

And anyone teaching one must "keep the Sabbath" is either a moron or Biblically illiterate, or perhaps just illiterate:


Colossians 2:16
King James Version (KJV)

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:


Or maybe illegitimate is a more apt term.

Not a fan of Spurgeon. A little dry and tending towards Charismatic for my taste.

And...?


God bless.

 

You speak of Calvinists not having hold of the New Covenant yet you seek to being men under a Covenant made obsolete by the New Covenant.

That is hilarious.

You guys need to be extremely careful when in proximity to ditches...


God bless.

 

This is about as ignorant a statement as I have seen posted before.

Free will? You seriously think men are saved through free will?


John 1:11-13
King James Version (KJV)

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.



You create a concept of being "stuck in salvation?"

You are bereft of understanding concerning Salvation in Christ. Utterly bereft.


God bless.

 

Again we see the creation of doctrine based on one verse, lol.

To the exclusion of everything Scripture teaches.

Who are the elect here...


1 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)


1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,


You are as bad as those who also teach a hyper meaning and use of the word Elect.


God bless.

 

Presenting your qualities doesn't help your doctrine, OB.


God bless.

 

And unfortunately for you, you think "first faith" refers to Judaism.

How sad.

But there is hope, OB, you too can read the Bible, instead of the holy writings of your religion, and come to that first love and first faith.


God bless.

 

Now let's start at the beginning here:


2 Peter 2
King James Version (KJV)

2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


Since the First Century we have been warned of people like you. Your doctrine is false.

You deny the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


Galatians 3
King James Version (KJV)

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


Yes, I know how you would answer that...by the works of the Law.

Another instance where Paul was wrong and you are right...right?


God bless.

 

The Second Death is Eternal Torment.


2 Peter 2:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

If one dies physically unredeemed, they will be sinners forever.

But what you are forgetting is that Christ was guiltless. That is why He did not undergo the Second Death.

Show me the passage that teaches the worm dies, and the fire is quenched.

Explain why Christ did not mean everlasting when He said...


Matthew 25:46
King James Version (KJV)

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


...?

Explain an end to the torment here...


Revelation 14:10-12
King James Version (KJV)

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


Annihilation is, surprise surprise...the doctrine of cults. Always has been, always will be.

I tried to discuss this with you and you disappeared.


God bless.

 

2 Peter 2 describes Ellen White very well indeed!

 

How so? Can you please give at least some detail? Sister White understood that a person's standing with God was based in ongoing relationship [a covenant of love, freedom to choose, and not force, rape of the will], and she understood that forgiveness [the covering of sin] could be revoked [thus uncovered] up to the time of the blotting out of sins, and understood the investigative judgment, that Matthew 18, and other texts teach, where God, has the record books of Heaven opened before the angelic hosts, even since the ending of the 2,300 prophecy of Daniel 8:13,14,26, etc KJB, revealing the lives of those who profess to follow in the Way.

 

... always changing the subject.

Old Covenant:

Exodus 19:3 KJB - And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

Exodus 19:4 KJB - Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

Exodus 19:5 KJB - Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Exodus 19:6 KJB - And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Exodus 19:7 KJB - And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.

Exodus 19:8 KJB - And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
​

'old' covenant entered into. Agreement to the terms made by solem oath. They entered into an agreement, a 'covenant' about another eternal covenant, which is God's everlasting "my covenant" [the Ten Commandments, Exodus 20, spoken 3 days later]:

Hebrews 8:6 KJB - But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 8:7 KJB - For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 8:8 KJB - For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:9 KJB - Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:10 KJB - For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
​

old covenant - '... All that the LORD hath spoken, we will do ...' [their faulty promises]

New [everlasting, eternal] covenant - 'I will ...' [God's perfect faithful promise]

Every single one of the Ten Commandments of God are His faultless promises.

Like the pharisees of old, you would find fault with God Himself, in His very character, which is written out in His Law. Your religion disgusts me, it is blasphemous.

 

As I said before, "Ye are of your father ..." [John 8:44 KJB], for I have never said, never taught, never written, nor even now believe any such thing, and you provided no such evidence, but merely asserted an unfounded accusation, just as your father does.

 

The "mist of darkness is reserved for ever", is not "torment", for "death" [2nd or no] and "torment" are two things, not one and the same.

Furthermore, where do we read "torment" here in this text? Nowhere. Darkness, is to be without Light, and without Life [see Genesis 1]. Jesus Christ is the Light, and He is the Light of Life:

John 1:4 KJB - In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

John 1:5 KJB - And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:7 KJB - The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 1:8 KJB - He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

John 1:9 KJB - That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

John 8:12 KJB - Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
​

The mist of darkness of the forever, is to be completely dead, for even that which they had of physical life, will be taken from them:

Matthew 25:29 KJB - For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

Matthew 25:30 KJB - And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
​

Jude says the same:

Jude 1:13 KJB - Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
​

Peter what do you mean?

2 Peter 2:12 KJB - But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
​

Truth was already given you:

"... Brother BobRyan's original response here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Smoke goeth up [distance and not time] here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

& here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...​

Passages on the destruction/annihilation of the wicked into smoke and ashes, not to be any more here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Hebrew and Greek from Strong's teaching annihilation here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Summation of righteous living in eternal fire, while wicked cease to be, cannot stand in the fiery presence of God which fills the whole New Heavens and earth here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Baptists, Old and New [Modern] teaching annihilation and soul sleep here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

"... εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων ..." here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Worm dieth not here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

& here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

& here [quench] - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

& here quench [and finale] - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...​

Carcase 1 here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Carcase 2 here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

Difference between suffering/torment [limited] and death [eternal] here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...

& here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...​

Archaic words and the KJB here - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"..." - The false SDA doctrine of "annihilationism"...​

 

so you don't think Jesus is God?

 

Again, you are of your father [John 8:44 KJB], for I have never said, never taught, never written, nor ever believed that anyone receives the Spirit by works of the law. You again, assert an unfounded accusation. You bear false witness against your neighbour.

 

"... 1 Timothy 1:19 KJB - Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

1 Timothy 1:20 KJB - Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

2 Timothy 2:17 KJB - And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2 Timothy 2:18 KJB - Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. ..." - OSAS does not survive the "Sola Scriptura test" in Matthew 18..etc

That didn't address the texts, nor the untenable position of OSAS, you merely character assassinated, you judged my heart. I judge your words by the scripture [KJB]. The position of OSAS is hopeless, helpless.