OSAS does not survive the "Sola Scriptura test" in Matthew 18..etc

[One Baptism]

Since you are either too lazy to even post your own proof texts or are aware that most people are too lazy to look at proof texts, I will show the wresting you do with the Word of God:

[1] Israel after the flesh which are not the children of God [Romans 9:6-8; 1 Corinthians 10:18 KJB]; ​

​

First, no-one "after the flesh" are the children of God:

Romans 8:9
King James Version (KJV)

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So your "point" is absurd....

It's like you did not actually read the very post of mine that you quoted in response. Here is again, what I said, and that which you quoted [and I will highlight]:

"... Israel after the flesh which are not the children of God [Romans 9:6-8; 1 Corinthians 10:18 KJB]; ..."​

You then said, in response:

" ... First, no-one "after the flesh" are the children of God: ..."
​

The focus of my reply, was on 'Israel' [not the world in general].

Call me what you will, I had already posted all of the evidence in full elsewhere on numerous occasions, which takes several pages.

 

[One Baptism]

Again we see the creation of doctrine based on one verse, lol.

To the exclusion of everything Scripture teaches.

Who are the elect here...

1 Peter 1
King James Version (KJV)

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

You are as bad as those who also teach a hyper meaning and use of the word Elect.

God bless.

Not at all. Jesus is the Elect, and the NT, explained the OT. Those in Him, if you will read my full statements, are elect with Him, if they abide in Him. None are elect outside of Christ, since He is the Head of the New Mankind, the New Creation.

1 Peter 1:2 KJB - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:3 KJB - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 1:4 KJB - To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

1 Peter 1:5 KJB - Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:13 KJB - Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1 Peter 1:14 KJB - As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

1 Peter 1:19 KJB - But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1 Peter 1:20 KJB - Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

1 Peter 1:21 KJB - Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.​

 

[One Baptism]

This is about as ignorant a statement as I have seen posted before.

Free will? You seriously think men are saved through free will?

John 1:11-13
King James Version (KJV)

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

You create a concept of being "stuck in salvation?"

You are bereft of understanding concerning Salvation in Christ. Utterly bereft.

God bless.

Personally, I think it might be a matter of reading skills and syntax with you. Read the text again [I hope you are praying before you do, otherwise, evile angels will be by your side to mislead you, I speak a warning in love].

John 1:11 KJB - He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

John 1:12 KJB - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:13 KJB - Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.​

Operation, the beginning, originates with God, verse 11 [see also Genesis 1:1 KJB, He is the Alpha]. Jesus was sent and came. Without this, there would never have been such Light.

Second part, Re-action, the "receiv[ing]" done by the people. God is love [1 John 4:8,16 KJB], and He draws.

They could not be "born again", unless they chose to "receive" Him, just as the choice was left to others who rejected Him [having first rejected the other messenger sent, John the Baptist: Luke 7:30 KJB - But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."]

The "born again" is on the part of God, no doubt, but God forces no one to be "born again", thus the entire conversation with Nicodemus in John 3. Nicodemus had to choose to accept the free gift of God. Mankind must co-operate with God in the plan of redemption.

OSAS pretty much negates belief/faith and even love in the end, especially when tied to the false understanding of predestination.

 

[Yeshua1]

How so? Can you please give at least some detail? Sister White understood that a person's standing with God was based in ongoing relationship [a covenant of love, freedom to choose, and not force, rape of the will], and she understood that forgiveness [the covering of sin] could be revoked [thus uncovered] up to the time of the blotting out of sins, and understood the investigative judgment, that Matthew 18, and other texts teach, where God, has the record books of Heaven opened before the angelic hosts, even since the ending of the 2,300 prophecy of Daniel 8:13,14,26, etc KJB, revealing the lives of those who profess to follow in the Way.

She misundersttod the scriptures, as all who are saved have ternal life right now, and that life in Christ can never be lost, for Jesus intercedes for all as our High priest, and the Holy Spirit Himself has placed an unbroken sealing in us.
She also misunderstood that God will never reject one he has saved, for he Himself died in their place to tone for ALL of their sins.
She also ,misunderstand prophecy, as the SDA is not the select true church, was not in the wilderness, and Daniel and revelation was NOT fulfilled by Middle Ages the 1135 days not dating from middle ages, , but is still yet to come!

 

[One Baptism]

She misundersttod the scriptures, as all who are saved have ternal life right now, and that life in Christ can never be lost, for Jesus intercedes for all as our High priest, and the Holy Spirit Himself has placed an unbroken sealing in us.
She also misunderstood that God will never reject one he has saved, for he Himself died in their place to tone for ALL of their sins.
She also ,misunderstand prophecy, as the SDA is not the select true church, was not in the wilderness, and Daniel and revelation was NOT fulfilled by Middle Ages the 1135 days not dating from middle ages, , but is still yet to come!

Will Jesus intercede forever for sins committed? Or is there a point that this stops before He comes?

Where is Jesus interceeding for us right now? What place? [If you say in Heaven, where, for a priest and Highpriest, need a Temple, and Ark of the Covenant, a Transgressed Law [otherwise why need an intercessor?]?

You speak of "1135 days" . Can you show me this in scripture [KJB], please?

I desire that some day, you will actually address the texts that brother Bob and I have raised in specificity in this thread.

 

[Yeshua1]

Will Jesus intercede forever for sins committed? Or is there a point that this stops before He comes?

Where is Jesus interceeding for us right now? What place? [If you say in Heaven, where, for a priest and Highpriest, need a Temple, and Ark of the Covenant, a Transgressed Law [otherwise why need an intercessor?]?

You speak of "1135 days" . Can you show me this in scripture [KJB], please?

I desire that some day, you will actually address the texts that brother Bob and I have raised in specificity in this thread.

I believe that the Sda itself sees the 1335 as being years, dating from the time when the church went apostate, and she brought back the real church again, same claim Mormons would make.
Jesus as High priest intercedes for all of His own until point of their physical death, as no longer needed when now in heaven with Him!

 

[One Baptism]

I believe that the Sda itself sees the 1335 as being years, dating from the time when the church went apostate, and she brought back the real church again, same claim Mormons would make.
Jesus as High priest intercedes for all of His own until point of their physical death, as no longer needed when now in heaven with Him!

So, you are saying that physical death is the victory over sin? I thought scripture says that death is an enemy [1 Corinthians 15:26 KJB]?

 

[Darrell C]

... always changing the subject.

Its not changing the subject, it directly describes your doctrine.

Old Covenant:

Exodus 19:3 KJB - And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

Exodus 19:4 KJB - Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

Exodus 19:5 KJB - Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Exodus 19:6 KJB - And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Exodus 19:7 KJB - And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.

Exodus 19:8 KJB - And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
'old' covenant entered into. Agreement to the terms made by solem oath.

A distinct Covenant, the Covenant of Law...not the New Covenant, that is made clear:


Hebrews 8:7-8
King James Version (KJV)

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


Your attempt to make the New Covenant the "new and improved" Covenant of Law is fine in the meeting places of cults, but it isn't going to stand up in a Christian setting.

They entered into an agreement, a 'covenant' about another eternal covenant, which is God's everlasting "my covenant" [the Ten Commandments, Exodus 20, spoken 3 days later]:

The Covenant made with Israel is not the Ten Commandments.

Again...


2 Corinthians 3
King James Version (KJV)

3 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


Be honest with me...have you ever actually read the Bible for yourself?


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Hebrews 8:6 KJB - But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 8:7 KJB - For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 8:8 KJB - For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:9 KJB - Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:10 KJB - For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Nothing at all in there about the New Covenant being a revised Covenant of Law.

old covenant - '... All that the LORD hath spoken, we will do ...' [their faulty promises]

So the question is...why are you trying to being men under bondage again?

And I have noticed...you have not yet responded to a single point I have made.

New [everlasting, eternal] covenant - 'I will ...' [God's perfect faithful promise]

Correct, so why do you teach ",,,you must!"

Every single one of the Ten Commandments of God are His faultless promises.

What ineffable twaddle.

Here are the promises of God when He promised the New Covenant:


Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


And I don't see any "Do this...do that...don't do this...don't do that."

The Covenant of Law was an if/then Covenant, and was never meant to bestow eternal life:


Galatians 3:21-22
King James Version (KJV)

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.


19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.


21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


If you pay attention to v.21 you will see that Paul does not equate the Ten Commandments, or the Law...to the promises of God, which are fulfilled when men are brought into relationship with God through the New Covenant.

Like the pharisees of old, you would find fault with God Himself, in His very character, which is written out in His Law.

On the contrary, I not only find fault with your wresting of Scripture, I am showing you how you are wresting it.

Would you mind showing some Biblical Support for your doctrine?

And would you please tell me how it is you are proving loss of salvation?

That is why I started the other thread...I am going to show you why you are in error concerning Hebrews. You need to come to understand what the Writer is actually teaching.

Your religion disgusts me, it is blasphemous.

I'm not the religious one here. You don't see me telling men they have to keep the Sabbath in order to maintain salvation, do you?

Do you even know what religion is?

Obviously not.


God bless.

 

[One Baptism]

I believe that the Sda itself sees the 1335 as being years, dating from the time when the church went apostate, and she brought back the real church again ...

Ok, so you mean the "1335" of Daniel, and not "1135"? Ok.

Do you believe that the 2,300 of Daniel 8:13,14,26, etc are literal days or prophetic years, and do you believe that they are past, happening now, or are yet future?

 

[loDebar]

Will Jesus intercede forever for sins committed? Or is there a point that this stops before He comes?

Where is Jesus interceeding for us right now? What place? [If you say in Heaven, where, for a priest and Highpriest, need a Temple, and Ark of the Covenant, a Transgressed Law [otherwise why need an intercessor?]?

You speak of "1135 days" . Can you show me this in scripture [KJB], please?

I desire that some day, you will actually address the texts that brother Bob and I have raised in specificity in this thread.

I
Heb 7:24
But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Heb 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26
¶
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Heb 7:27
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Heb 7:28
For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, makeththe Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Everything ends:
Rev 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

[One Baptism]

Its not changing the subject,...

Matthew 18 please, subject of the OP.

 

[One Baptism]

I
Heb 7:24
But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Heb 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26
¶
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Heb 7:27
Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Heb 7:28
For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, makeththe Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Everything ends:
Rev 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Agreed.

 

[Yeshua1]

So, you are saying that physical death is the victory over sin? I thought scripture says that death is an enemy [1 Corinthians 15:26 KJB]?

I am saying that the resurrection of Jesus smashed the hold of Death, and so when any saved dies, absent from that body, and right then in the presence of the Lord!

 

[One Baptism]

I am saying that the resurrection of Jesus smashed the hold of Death, and so when any saved dies, absent from that body, and right then in the presence of the Lord!

So you are saying that in physical death, that is the victory over sin.

How did Jesus then have victory over sin in the likeness of the fallen flesh, the sinful flesh of man, that we all have?

 

[Yeshua1]

Ok, so you mean the "1335" of Daniel, and not "1135"? Ok.

Do you believe that the 2,300 of Daniel 8:13,14,26, etc are literal days or prophetic years, and do you believe that they are past, happening now, or are yet future?

Yet future, involving the Second Coming, and parallel to Revelation also!

 

[Yeshua1]

So you are saying that in physical death, that is the victory over sin.

How did Jesus then have victory over sin in the likeness of the fallen flesh, the sinful flesh of man, that we all have?

He never has sinful fallen flesh, as his was perfect humanity!

 

[Darrell C]

As I said before, "Ye are of your father ..." [John 8:44 KJB], for I have never said, never taught, never written, nor even now believe any such thing, and you provided no such evidence, but merely asserted an unfounded accusation, just as your father does.

Be honest with yourself: if you are teaching men to return to the Law, that is your first love and your first faith.

1 Timothy 5:12 KJB - Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

Context, Ten Commandments [John 14:15; Exodus 20:6 KJB:

John 14:15 KJB - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exodus 20:6 KJB And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 5:10 KJB - And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

John 14:21 KJB - He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

James 4:12 KJB - There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

1 Samuel 10:9 KJB - And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.

1 Samuel 15:11 KJB - It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.

"His will":

Psalms 40:7 KJB - Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Psalms 40:8 KJB - I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Psalms 40:9 KJB - I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.

Psalms 40:10 KJB - I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.

Psalms 143:10 KJB - Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness.

Matthew 6:10 KJB - Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Psalms 103:20 KJB - Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
Hebrews 10:7 KJB - Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Hebrews 10:8 KJB - Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Hebrews 10:9 KJB- Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Psalms 119:47 KJB - And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.

Micah 4:2 KJB - And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Jeremiah 31:33 KJB - But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jeremiah 6:19 KJB - Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

Jeremiah 26:4 KJB - And thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; If ye will not hearken to me, to walk in my law, which I have set before you,

Hosea 4:6 KJB - My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
The warning is faithfully given. I am clean of your blood.

You are the Judaizer warned about in Scripture.

That you are not aware that this is your religion says a lot.

And by the way, this...

Hebrews 10:9

KJB- Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

...doesn't refer to the Law. It refers to God's will in regards to Christ dying on the Cross.

And it specifically speaks of taking away the First (Covenant), and establishing the Second (the New Covenant). That's why he mentions the New Covenant so many times in this Book...its just a primary thrust to the Judaizers among the Christians he writes to.



God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

Be honest with yourself: if you are teaching men to return to the Law, that is your first love and your first faith.











You are the Judaizer warned about in Scripture.

That you are not aware that this is your religion says a lot.

And by the way, this...


...doesn't refer to the Law. It refers to God's will in regards to Christ dying on the Cross.

And it specifically speaks of taking away the First (Covenant), and establishing the Second (the New Covenant). That's why he mentions the New Covenant so many times in this Book...its just a primary thrust to the Judaizers among the Christians he writes to.



God bless.

Just as the RCC/Mormons/JW all do , Sda teaches another and a false Gospel!

 

[One Baptism]

Yet future, involving the Second Coming, and parallel to Revelation also!

Interesting, so you believe then that the 2,300 of Daniel 8:13,14,26 etc KJB to be literal days to be fulfilled in the future? When do they start for you, what is the sign to begin counting?

As I read, the 2,300 of Daniel 8:13,14,26, deal with "the vision" of Daniel 8, and it's "how long", begins in the Medo-Persian kingdom, of the Ram with two horns.

Do you see the "1335" as part of the "2300" of Daniel or separate and distinct from it?