Calling an Associate Pastor

[revmwc]

Should a church have an open vote with the candidate present when voting on an Associate Pastor?

My church just voted in a young man who grew up in the church and went on to get a BA from a Baptist college. He has never pastored a church and he has filled the pulpit a few times, most don't like his style or delivery of messages. But the vote had him and his parents present as it was presented by the pastor and deacon body. About 30 in attendance and about 5-10 voted yes. No one threw their hand up to vote no but many told me they didn't because it wasn't a secret ballot, should it have been. I have never seen a copy of the by-laws for this church.

 

[Salty]

When I want to join a church - the Constitution is one of the first things I want to see!
and yes, should be by secret ballot

 

[TCassidy]

The church I pastored did it right, in my opinion. All those on the Pastoral Staff were under my purview. I alone interviewed and selected those who would serve in that capacity.

Once I had decided on the person, the congregation would confirm or deny my choice, via secret ballot.

Over the years I had six associates, all selected the same way, and never had a problem with the selection process.

 

[Reynolds]

Should a church have an open vote with the candidate present when voting on an Associate Pastor?

My church just voted in a young man who grew up in the church and went on to get a BA from a Baptist college. He has never pastored a church and he has filled the pulpit a few times, most don't like his style or delivery of messages. But the vote had him and his parents present as it was presented by the pastor and deacon body. About 30 in attendance and about 5-10 voted yes. No one threw their hand up to vote no but many told me they didn't because it wasn't a secret ballot, should it have been. I have never seen a copy of the by-laws for this church.

You should have made a motion to vote secret ballot.

 

[revmwc]

You should have made a motion to vote secret ballot.

They ask for only questions for the candidate then asked for a motion to accept which was made and seconded. Any discussion on him and then all for hands raised no count of hands and then all opposed no one raised a hand even though many wanted too.

It was also stated that when the pastor of over 30 years retires then this young man can be voted in as pastor or not. Although the pastor said he expected the transition to go smoothly when he left fornthis young man to move right to the pastor position.

Why didn’t I ask for a secret ballot? The wife said hush as I asked is this going to be a secret ballot only a few heard me and they went right to the vote.

 

[Reynolds]

They ask for only questions for the candidate then asked for a motion to accept which was made and seconded. Any discussion on him and then all for hands raised no count of hands and then all opposed no one raised a hand even though many wanted too.

It was also stated that when the pastor of over 30 years retires then this young man can be voted in as pastor or not. Although the pastor said he expected the transition to go smoothly when he left fornthis young man to move right to the pastor position.

Its a business meeting. Interrupt and make a motion.worst that can happen is you get called out of order.

 

[revmwc]

Its a business meeting. Interrupt and make a motion.worst that can happen is you get called out of order.

Roberts rule of order once a motion is on the floor it must be voted on before another can be made.

 

[Reynolds]

Roberts rule of order once a motion is on the floor it must be voted on before another can be made.

If you want to go by Roberts then technically voting on the pastor was not a motion. It was a committee recommendation. As I said, the worst that can happen is moderator call you out of order. Moderators try to avoid doing that due to the fact that it has the perception of dictatorship.

 

[Reynolds]

I have another idea. Put on the big boy pants and vote no in an open vote.

 

[agedman]

Roberts rule of order once a motion is on the floor it must be voted on before another can be made.

Actually, the rules indicate that amendment to the motion can be agreed upon by a second and a vote.

In this case, one could rise and offer the amendment that the motion be voted on by secret ballot. If that offer of amendment has a second, then prior to the motion, the amendment must be voted on.

The other alternative is to move the motion be tabled. Such a tabling cannot be discussed, and must be voted upon immediately.

Should one have know the church constitution, perhaps a point of order could have been raised pointing out that the proceedings were in violation of the constitution of the assembly and therefore any action was not valid.

Such can actually still happen, if the proceedings did not follow the agreed statements of that document.

 

[DeaconPhil]

Leave the church or accept the vote as submitted. Those seem to be your options after the fact.

BTW, I have never been in a church business meeting where a vote for a pastor was an open vote. Usually, they are a secret ballot.

 

[Reynolds]

I

Leave the church or accept the vote as submitted. Those seem to be your options after the fact.

BTW, I have never been in a church business meeting where a vote for a pastor was an open vote. Usually, they are a secret ballot.

Have been in 1. It was designed to hire someone that leadership knew would be a hard confirmation. Vote took forever because it was so close hands had to be counted multiple times. Recommendation to hire passed by 2 votes. Not long after, the church split pretty much along the lines of that vote.
The senior pastor had made up his mind he was going to hire who he wanted regardless. It was underhanded and I later found the proof of the deception in the deacons minutes. I think that was only the second time I caught a pastor in a bald faced lie.

 

[Pastor Sam]

Should a church have an open vote with the candidate present when voting on an Associate Pastor?

My church just voted in a young man who grew up in the church and went on to get a BA from a Baptist college. He has never pastored a church and he has filled the pulpit a few times, most don't like his style or delivery of messages. But the vote had him and his parents present as it was presented by the pastor and deacon body. About 30 in attendance and about 5-10 voted yes. No one threw their hand up to vote no but many told me they didn't because it wasn't a secret ballot, should it have been. I have never seen a copy of the by-laws for this church.

I think it should have been secret ballot. I think the church will regret adding this staff member the way they did. Sorry to say the one that will get hurt the most is the young man that didn’t really get enough votes.

 

[Paul from Antioch]

I've got two questions that, in a sense, pertain to calling a pastor and/or the ordination procedure(s) involved to doing so. I'm not sure if both of these questions should actually be in two new separate forums or not. If our Baptist Board Administrators think that they should be in two brand new Forums, I'll let them decide exactly how one does this since I've never personally tried to create a new forum(s). Anyway, here goes: (1) Should young members (Age 12 or under) be permitted to vote on the selection of a new pastor? I've heard at least two different opinions on this, but, IMHO, neither one has come to a definite conclusion on this issue. What do you BB folks believe about this matter, and, if you can, please supply me with very SPECIFIC NT passage(s) that you would use to back up your position. And (2) What exactly should a person expect from an Ordination Council with regard to a very specific situation that may arise in their questioning of a prospective pastoral candidate? I've never served on an Ordination Council, but in my over 55 years as a (Baptist) born-again person, I've heard some questions that, IMHO, are merely phrased to trip up a new candidate. EXAMPLE: A new pastoral candidate who's never had any personal experience at pastoring was once asked this: The wife of a married couple (& her mate) both came from a very strict Islamic background. The wife hears the Gospel and is wonderfully saved, but her husband never receives Christ as his Savior. Given this situation, what is your opinion about claiming that this marriage was "Made in Heaven..Praise God!," etc. How would a prospective pastoral candidate answer that question, and, if he publicly preaches this position to that church, should the Ordination Council vote for or against him being that church's new pastor? To me, a question and its resulting action isn't something a new pastor ought to contend with, especially if that church's congregation is split on their answer(s). What do You think about either or both of these situations, and I'd appreciate your supplying me with very specific NT scriptures to support your position(s) on either or both of these situations. Like I said at the beginning, if our BB Administrators rule that these two questions need to be in one or two separate forums, that's fine with me.

 

[Tom Bryant]

I've got two questions that, in a sense, pertain to calling a pastor and/or the ordination procedure(s) involved to doing so. I'm not sure if both of these questions should actually be in two new separate forums or not. If our Baptist Board Administrators think that they should be in two brand new Forums, I'll let them decide exactly how one does this since I've never personally tried to create a new forum(s). Anyway, here goes: (1) Should young members (Age 12 or under) be permitted to vote on the selection of a new pastor? I've heard at least two different opinions on this, but, IMHO, neither one has come to a definite conclusion on this issue. What do you BB folks believe about this matter, and, if you can, please supply me with very SPECIFIC NT passage(s) that you would use to back up your position. And (2) What exactly should a person expect from an Ordination Council with regard to a very specific situation that may arise in their questioning of a prospective pastoral candidate? I've never served on an Ordination Council, but in my over 55 years as a (Baptist) born-again person, I've heard some questions that, IMHO, are merely phrased to trip up a new candidate. EXAMPLE: A new pastoral candidate who's never had any personal experience at pastoring was once asked this: The wife of a married couple (& her mate) both came from a very strict Islamic background. The wife hears the Gospel and is wonderfully saved, but her husband never receives Christ as his Savior. Given this situation, what is your opinion about claiming that this marriage was "Made in Heaven..Praise God!," etc. How would a prospective pastoral candidate answer that question, and, if he publicly preaches this position to that church, should the Ordination Council vote for or against him being that church's new pastor? To me, a question and its resulting action isn't something a new pastor ought to contend with, especially if that church's congregation is split on their answer(s). What do You think about either or both of these situations, and I'd appreciate your supplying me with very specific NT scriptures to support your position(s) on either or both of these situations. Like I said at the beginning, if our BB Administrators rule that these two questions need to be in one or two separate forums, that's fine with me.

A question about this. (1) Is this is an ordination council to determine if the church believes the man should be ordained or a Council to call someone as the pastor? In my experience they have always been different.

I don't think the guy should answer a trick question. I would have said that a marriage made by 2 Islamic people was never made in heaven. I have seen too many marriages between confessing Christian that weren't made in heaven either.

To answer the original question, any kind of personnel issues should be done by secret ballot whether to call a candidate or to raise their salary.

That church is headed for some real problems without any kind of working by laws.

Besides that, I'd never go to a church where 5 - 10 out of 30 people present voted yes.

 

[Salty]

Paul, I started a new thread with a poll to indicate the minimum age to vote for a pastor.
Voting on a Pastor

 

[Paul from Antioch]

A question about this. (1) Is this is an ordination council to determine if the church believes the man should be ordained or a Council to call someone as the pastor? In my experience they have always been different.

I don't think the guy should answer a trick question. I would have said that a marriage made by 2 Islamic people was never made in heaven. I have seen too many marriages between confessing Christian that weren't made in heaven either.

To answer the original question, any kind of personnel issues should be done by secret ballot whether to call a candidate or to raise their salary.

That church is headed for some real problems without any kind of working by laws.

Besides that, I'd never go to a church where 5 - 10 out of 30 people present voted yes.

Remember that bit of advice, "NEVER, never, join a "Perfect" church!!! It wouldn't be perfect anymore!!" That's been something that's always sort of bugged me over these past 55 years in God's Family...They never seen a church split they didn't like!! I remember as a less than 2 years old in Christ, that so-called "Business meeting we had over in Germany in 1967. We were at that time a mission off of another "GI Church" some 70 or so miles away & were struggling (In more ways than 1!!), At the most I don't think our total attendance was more than 20 (new-born's included). Ninety-nine % of that mission marched out the doors over some "SUPPOSED" 'Docterinal' issue. I know that the Gospels tell us that, "Where 2 or 3 are gathered together ..." Never thought that would literally come to pass, but it did: (1) The Mission Pastor; (2) His wife; & (3) ME!! And, mind you, at that time I was only a 2-3 YO baby in Christ. I guess that's why I have the deepest respect for any man who holds the office of Pastor. I learned how to TREAT a Pastor.....AND how to MIStreat one too. When the NT tells us to pray for those in authority over us, IT MEANS IT!! I've never been called to preach, but I still want to uphold that man (& I've had at least 8 different pastors from at least 6 different churches from 1966 to 2021, but I do pray for them...some, of course, are now with Jesus, but each one, fallible as men are, have a spot in my heart in my being (& their wives too!). I've heard different speakers comment that it's gonna take 1,000 years to "wipe away ALL our tears," & I believe it!!

 

[Paul from Antioch]

Paul, I started a new thread with a poll to indicate the minimum age to vote for a pastor.
Voting on a Pastor

Here's an example of, shall we say, "Lacking in Biblical Perspective," (But actually happened in the last century.): The wife of the recently deceased pastor SAID that she knew who the new pastor should be: Her BIL. This person was divorced before he was saved, but since then has not married. The deceased pastor's wife said that this man would be "Just the thing" to minister to our church's youth. What would your advice be in this particular matter?

 

[Salty]

Here's an example of, shall we say, "Lacking in Biblical Perspective," (But actually happened in the last century.): The wife of the recently deceased pastor SAID that she knew who the new pastor should be: Her BIL. This person was divorced before he was saved, but since then has not married. The deceased pastor's wife said that this man would be "Just the thing" to minister to our church's youth. What would your advice be in this particular matter?

Actually, I saw something similar in a church that I was the Associate. Pastor passed away unexpectedly (age 50). Within a couple of months, the pastors wife had scheduled a pastor to come and speak for the following three weeks. In the bulletin it stated that on the third week, they would vote on the pastor. This notice was in the bulletin even before any one even met the pastor, let alone heard him preach or interviewed him. The prospective pastor had been the deceased pastor several years ago. - They did not want to consider me, because about 6 months previously, I had stepped on too many toes in a message I preached. These are the outline points I preached: A) Attendance - be faithful to as many services as possible. B) Bring your Bible, read your Bible C) be committed to the church. I preached that message because no one was following -- the "church" was more of a social club. So they voted in that pastor - and Mrs Salty and I felt it was best to leave.

Bottome line - one person should not be making those decisions- .......

 

[Paul from Antioch]

Actually, I saw something similar in a church that I was the Associate. Pastor passed away unexpectedly (age 50). Within a couple of months, the pastors wife had scheduled a pastor to come and speak for the following three weeks. In the bulletin it stated that on the third week, they would vote on the pastor. This notice was in the bulletin even before any one even met the pastor, let alone heard him preach or interviewed him. The prospective pastor had been the deceased pastor several years ago. - They did not want to consider me, because about 6 months previously, I had stepped on too many toes in a message I preached. These are the outline points I preached: A) Attendance - be faithful to as many services as possible. B) Bring your Bible, read your Bible C) be committed to the church. I preached that message because no one was following -- the "church" was more of a social club. So they voted in that pastor - and Mrs Salty and I felt it was best to leave.

Bottome line - one person should not be making those decisions- .......

I've heard of a primarily-military-based church who's constitution stated that if a member was absent @ 3 regular services (i.e., Sun AM, Sun PM, & mid-week [The med-week service varied from week to week because their meeting place was rented from a company that often hosted conferences, etc., & used this church's meeting room for them.), NO EXCUSES ACCEPTED, that member was automatically listed as an "INACTIVE MEMBER," & as its constitution stipulated could not partake of the Lord's Supper at that church until a majority of members voted that person into its "ACTIVE" role. Seems to me that this policy over-stepped its bounds since it made no provision for a member being deployed or any other reason (e.g., a protracted illness, etc.) for a member's absence. I don't know what this church did if one of its GI's went on leave, etc., but again, is it up to the local church to say who can & who cannot partake of the Lord's Supper? Even Judas Iscariot partook of the elements when Jesus instituted the L's S, didn't he? And, what if that church's pastor was called on a 90-day deployment? To me this kind of "INACTIVE" status would leave more questions unsolved than it would solve them, wouldn't it? I left that TN area years ago so I don't know for certain if that church still has this in its constitution; moreover, I don't even know if that church is in existence. Comments??