Featured The just and the justifier

Hebrews 53/ 1 Peter 2:24

 

My mistake, isaiah 53 was meant.
Martin, myself, archangel have all responded to your postings, and all of us have used the scriptures to show that the theology of PST is not "extra biblical", but is indeed the primary atonement theology of Jesus and His Apostles!
You seem to be really getting hung up on the truth that Jesus experienced the wrath of God that we were all deserving, as he took and bore that in our stated as our substitute before the father!

 

You still don't understand. I have never, ever said that God considered the Lord Jesus to be sinful, not ever considered it for a moment. He was 'made sin.' For the third time, we compare Scripture with Scripture and come up with Isaiah 53:6. The Lord laid upon Him all the sin and wickedness of His people. This can only have been by imputation; He was made the very epitome of sin. But God regarded Him as the Sinbearer, not as a sinner.

It does nothing of the sort and you should be ashamed of yourself.

But that is exactly what it does say in Isaiah 53:5-6.

You know nothing of the sort. You know perfectly well that over and over again I have denied that He was a sinner or that God the Father viewed Him as such. If you don't understand what I'm saying, you can always ask rather than traduce me by saying things which are flat out untrue and which I have already denied. What I have said is that God treated Him as such.

Once again, you are attributing things to me which not only have I never said, but which I have denied over and over again.
However, if you find the Biblical doctrine of Penal Substitution demeaning to God, that is your problem. The Moslems agree with you, however.

Of course it absolutely says that, and I quote, 'Anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse.' How much clearer do you want it? Those words are the ones that the Holy Spirit wants us to concentrate on, because He caused Paul to quote them, and no others, in Galatians 3:13.

Once again you reveal that you have no idea what I've been arguing. Or rather, I suspect that you know exactly what I've been arguing but would sooner misrepresent me than discuss with me. To suggest that God considered the Lord Jesus to be guilty and a blasphemer is a monstrous heresy. I hope ( but do not expect) that you will withdraw these comments and apologize for them.

Well here are some plain words of Scripture for you: 'Anyone who is hanged on a tree is under God's curse.' Now before you misrepresent me again, please understand. Christ never, ever, at any time ceased to be the Beloved Son of the Father--have you got that? Have you taken it in? Will you stop telling untruths about me? It is as sinbearer that Christ suffered God's curse and experienced His righteous anger, not against His own Person, but against sin.

I know, JonC, that you cannot understand Scripture except through the theory that you have chosen. That has been clear for quite some time.

Galatians 5:7-8.

Perhaps that is true. Perhaps it is not your deliberate policy to distort what other people say. Perhaps you are temperamentally unable to discuss these matters without snide comments and downright lies concerning those with whom you debate. I would like to believe that is the case.

I would like for others who read the thread, who are able (perhaps less vested in your theory) to see beyond the theoretical suppositions through which you read the Bible, and the poverty of your expositions, and to consider what is actually taught in Scripture. I want them to see the depth and richness of what has been taught and passed down through the majority of Church history as compared to the shallow and unbiblical "doctrine" we've inherited by ditching the Reformation as contemporary churches have abandoned theory and tossed off Scripture itself for a sort of touchy-feely pseudo-theology where the love of God must always trump His holiness and righteousness.

So you are not my target audience. I know you will never leave your theory. You're too invested. Having once left the truth, it's very humbling to admit to oneself that one has made a blunder. I hope you will manage that in due course.

I am through debating with you. I have been on Christian discussion forums for twenty years and have never discussed with anyone who so distorted what I have said and dropped so many snide comments, totally unsupported by Scripture into the conversation. You have apologized to me privately for your behaviour and then continued in an even worse manner. I very much regret that I have stooped to your level from time to time, and responded in kind. I apologize for that to everyone on the board except you.

I am very happy to be judged by the doctrinal posts I have made on this and other threads concerning Penal Substitution. It is a vitally important doctrine, and I assure all those who consider this doctrine that If Christ has not borne God's righteous anger against sin and sinners on your behalf, you will have to bear it yourselves.

With that I am finished on this board as long as @JonC remains as a moderator.