The Function of the Law in the New Covenant

I simply believe it's a misnomer to call it a "Moral Law". I agree with most of what this asserts--God's Law reveals His Holy and Righteous Character, It is the basis in which God Established His Covenant with Israelites, etc. But in terms of Characteristics that we replicate, *Godliness* is more accurate than "morality". You may say that is semantics, but I do not believe so. Morality, even within Christians who Claim to be Biblical, have shifted their stance on what "Christian Ethics" look like. It used to Be Morally unacceptable for Christians to dance or play cards. Godliness is undeniable. Godliness is the better term in which we should build genuine Christian "ethics" upon.

Furthermore, Morality says something is right or wrong--the Decalogue proclaims no ethics (What if I STOLE a Gun from someone who was going to shoot an innocent child? Stealing becomes "Morally acceptable" in this case) The Law was designed to guard God's people from ungodliness and to Uphold His Holy Name.

 

What days were these?

 

Amen! But the evidence that we love our neighbour will be that we do not kill him or hate him; that we do not seduce his wife; that we do not steal from him, lie to him or covet his possessions.
So I repeat my question: do you think God expects Christians not to live by the Ten Commandments (John 14:15)? Hint: look also at Matthew 5:19 & Romans 6:1-2. The Commandments are not the Christian's righteousness, but they are his rule of life. His prayer is, 'Your hands have made me and fashioned me; give me understanding that I may learn Your commandments' (Psalm 119:73).

 

Can stealing me morally OK?

 

Love is the Christian Rule brother--
John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

 

Thanks for sharing. But the Ten Commandments are the Old Covenant. Since this alone answers everything else you say on this matter, I'll concentrate on this for now.

This is from a Reformed Scholar who proves the Ten Commandments ARE the Old Covenant. Please read carefully, keeping in mind the Ten Commandments HUNG from the Two Great Commandments. These are the commandments that predated the Ten. As I said, something must exists before anything can hang from it.

“And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.”
Deuteronomy 4:13:

“And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.”
Deuteronomy 9:9:

“When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.”
Deuteronomy 9:15:

“So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.”

We may learn the same thing by comparison of two passages in the 8th chapter of I Kings. In the 9th verse of that chapter we read the following statement, occurring in the story of the dedication of the temple:

“There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone which Moses put there at Horeb, when Jehovah made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt,”

and in the 21st verse of the same chapter Solomon says:

“And there have I set a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of Jehovah, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.”
The second of these two texts is repeated in II Chronicles 6:11.

From the above scripture passages we see clearly that while the civil, liturgical and personal regulations rest upon the Sinaitic Covenant, yet they are not the covenant itself: that supreme position belongs to the Ten Commandments. Because they constituted the covenant, therefore the golden casket in which they were deposited was called “The ark of the covenant.” (Numbers 10:33; Jeremiah 3:16, and other places)


Albertus Pieters. The Seed of Abraham.

Let's develop this. I appreciate your challenges and think we can arrive at an agreement.

 

It's been awhile since I looked into NCT. I remember seeing some bugs in it. But I hold to the Reformed view. But if the Ten Commandments are the Old Covenant, and Jesus abolished it on the cross, only the portions He and the NT writers imported apply to us. If the moral Law (pure fabrication) continued, we must do it all, including not heating our homes on Saturday in the winter. You can find portions of the Ten Commandments in the NT, but these are for instruction and commentary. We see the NT using them this way many times, but also forbidding us to return to the Law.

 

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Rosh Hashana
Yom Kippur
Sukkoth

 

It may be a small thing, but it seems important to me.

It is possible to obey each of the 10 Commandments of the Old Covenant, and yet disobey the same commandments as presented in the New Covenant. For me personally, it came home with the fact that for all of the violence of my pre-saved life, I never actually killed anyone (truth be told, not through lack of trying) ... then along comes Jesus and tells me that if I have hated anyone, I am guilty of MURDER in my heart. I unknowingly kept the Old Covenant (in part) and yet hopelessly violated that same part of the New Covenant.

In the example quoted above, one can obey Exodus 20:3 with a lackluster obligatory sacrifice. Matthew 4:10 seems to require more than NOT serving other gods, it requires one to actively WORSHIP and SERVE the LORD your GOD! This requires more of a personal commitment to fulfill the New Covenant than the Old Covenant.

So, in a sense, the 'thou shall not' are dead and replaced by a greater 'thou shall'.

Like I said, it may be a small thing, but it seems important to me.

 

You said the "evidence"--atheists can accomplish these things--do they have God's love working in them? Christ goes further and says that we are to bless and help and care for those we Love. That's the Evidence of God's Love. Law Restricts, Grace and Love accomplishes the Work of Christ. Law is good and Spiritual, but it falls short of what is the Christian Duty.

 

Certainly love is the Christian rule; you'll get no argument from me on that. But again, I ask you, do you think God expects Christians not to live by the Ten Commandments (John 14:15)? And may I remind you that the first part of the Christian rule is love for God (Mark 12:28-31)?

Atheists fall at the very first hurdle: 'You shall have no other gods before Me' and therefore all their other works, however good they may be, are mired and tainted by sin and therefore unacceptable before God (Leviticus 22:21).

But I think you have the wrong idea about the law. It does not fall short; we do! 'For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh' (Romans 8:3). It's not the law that's weak, it's us! 'Therefore the law is holy, the commandment holy and just and good' (Romans 7:12). The reason that the law cannot save us is that we can't keep it (Romans 7:14ff). That is why we need Christ. In the Sermon on the Mount, the Lord Jesus is not propounding a new law; He's giving us the proper interpretation of the law. It's not enough not to murder; you mustn't even hate. It's not enough not to commit adultery; you mustn't even look lustfully at another woman. It's not enough to love your neighbour; you must love your enemy! It's not enough to greet your brethren; you must greet the sinners and tax collectors. This is the law from which not one jot or tittle will pass away until all is fulfilled, and it is why we need a righteousness that exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees. We need the perfect righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ imputed to us.

 

oh dear brother! May i remind you of what Bro. Paul wrote?
1 Tim. 1
5 The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion,7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.
8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

 

@Martin Marprelate
I've already answered your question--does God expect Christians to "not" live by the Law? God our Father Expects us to Live by the Perfect Law of Liberty, the Law of Christ, The Royal Law--Love--which goes BEYOND the restrictive covenant rules of the OT Decalogue. Maybe i'm not explaining myself well, but How is it that you do not understand that Love Exceeds law????? God just does not say "do not break rules", He says live a love-blessing to those around you as a demonstration of God's love in you.

Paul wrote that the "law" was the Schoolmaster that led people to Grace. Grace Exceeds, Law restricts. the Law is Good, Holy And Just, but we must understand in in accordance with Christ and Grace...Moses Brought the Law but Christ brought Grace...and grace upon Grace.

You are discussing this in a way where it makes it seem i am pitting the NT vs. OT, Law Vs. Love...and that is not so brother! We must understand Law in its proper context as it relates to Redemption and The Work and Person of Christ.

 

Thanks for helping keep this alive. Albertus Pieters taught this view. He is solidly Reformed and taught at Western Reformed Theological Seminary in western Michigan up until the 1950s.

 

Once again, this falls short of anything that is biblical. God's "Moral Law"? to Show right and wrong?

Can stealing become moral? Or how about bearing False witness?

If i stole my neighbors gun because i knew he was going to harm someone, is that ok?

Or what if a bunch of thieves came into my house and asked, "Do you have an children here?" and i said "NO", knowing good and well they are hiding in the basement. Does that mean i did something immoral?

 

Even though the Lord Himself created those Morals to give to us?

 

Does God require us to be obedient today under the NC to His Moral Laws as revealed to us in the 10 Commandments then?

 

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles forseven days unto the LORD. On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein. Lev 23:2,34-36

And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made. 1 Kings 12:32

I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. Amos 5
I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts. Hosea 2:11

What feast days were despised by God? His or theirs/hers?



And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely. And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD. Hosea 2:18-20

Will that be the New Covenant?

Another thought. Will this marriage feast of the Lamb take place in the seventh month prophetically speaking?

 

Yes, as those laws express to us how we ought to be living now, and the way to be sure to be obedient to God now is to stay in the scriptures, and to walk in the Holy Spirit.