David Dockery at The Southern Baptist Seminary's Lectures

[Rhetorician]

Hello all:

I consider Dr. David Dockery a personal friend. I thought it Southern Baptist's loss and Trinity IU's gain when he went from Union University there to be President a few years ago. He is so revered and loved he comes back from time to time to speak on special occasions and at different venues. He did such lately at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary for the Norton Lectures.

In this lecture his thesis was what the the SBC and Evangelicals can learn from each other. That brings me to the reason why I want to post some of his address here in the part of the forum. He makes reference to the Fundamentalists. And I thought that you would want to hear what is being said, and if you think it accurate. I would like to hear back from you concerning the address when possible.

Enjoy!

Dockery at Norton Lectures: Southern Baptists and evangelicals can learn from each other - News - SBTS

I remain fraternally yours.

sdg!

rd

 

[TCassidy]

Interesting article. I find myself, in my old age, in a similar bifurcated (trifurcated?) situation.

I was raised an Evangelical.
My uncle, Kenneth Kantzer, was Dean of Faculty at TEDS and built that school from a small denominational (Evangelical Free Church) institute to what is quite possibly the flagship of American Evangelicalism today.

But,

I was saved in an IFB church.
I was baptized in an IFB church.
I was married in an IFB church.
I was educated in an IFB seminary.
I pastored an IFB church (27 years).
I taught in an IFB college.
I taught in an IFB Seminary (25 years).

And now,

I am a serving member, in my retirement, of a Southern Baptist church. (Granted it is a very conservative SBC church.)

I tend to agree with much of what Dr. Dockery says, and would also emphasize the danger of an unfettered Evangelicalism, apart from the doctrinal stability a denomination's statement of faith provides. A good example would be Wheaton College. Founded as Wesleyan Methodist but early on morphed into a more Congregational aspect due to Congregationalists dominating the Board of Trustees, largely due to financial reasons. And again, in 1925, a Presbyterian, J. Oliver Buswell, became President. But he was fired in 1940 for being "too intellectual in his approach to Christianity."

This brought about the morphing of the college into a liberal arts institution with, as some would say, emphasis on "liberal." The school accepted evolution being taught in its biology department and now alumni have established OneWheaton, with the stated purpose of providing support to lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and similarly situated students and alumni at Wheaton and other colleges.

A strong denominational tie may have gone a long way in preventing that drift to the theological/political left.

However, there are some exceptions to the above rule. Dallas Seminary seems to have remained fairly stable, in spite of a slight tendency toward Neo-Evangelicalism back in the 1960s, while also remaining firmly in the non-denominational evangelical camp. This "softness" led to Dr. George W. Dollar (Chairman, Department of Church History, Dallas Seminary 1959-1968) placing Dallas in the Moderate Fundamentalist category in his 1973 book, A History of Fundamentalism in America. (Bearing in mind that at the time he wrote that book he was Chairman of the Department of Church History at Bob Jones University - 1971-1977, a Militant Fundamentalist University.)

Looking forward to some interesting discussion.

 

[TCassidy]

This is one of the things that irritate me about the BB. You get 150 replies to theological twaddle but nobody wants to participate in what could be a very important discussion.

 

[Jerome]

In his lectures, Dockery described the history of the Southern Baptist Convention and biblical authority, tracing the changes in understanding of the doctrine of Scripture from the 19th century to the present.

Yeah, well here's the tack Dockery was taking circa 1990:

Scholars discuss ways to move 'beyond the impasse' pp. 12-13

"Speakers at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary's Pastor's School discussed ways to move Southern Baptists 'beyond the impasse' in the denomination's current theological debate....During the conference, Dockery said Southern Baptists will have to decide if 'we can hold together tensions on various views about the Bible as well as various views of interpreting the Bible.' Southern Baptists must understand the Bible is truthful, authoritative and is both a divine and human book, said Dockery. 'I think it is very possible to move the discussion forward and still talk about the nature of Scripture without using those particular red flag terms'....'I would prefer that we talk about the Scripture as truthful, reliable and authoritative and see it having to be the normative guide for the church, for our lives and for the Christian community,'"

 

[Rhetorician]

Yeah, well here's the tack Dockery was taking circa 1990:

Scholars discuss ways to move 'beyond the impasse' pp. 12-13

"Speakers at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary's Pastor's School discussed ways to move Southern Baptists 'beyond the impasse' in the denomination's current theological debate....During the conference, Dockery said Southern Baptists will have to decide if 'we can hold together tensions on various views about the Bible as well as various views of interpreting the Bible.' Southern Baptists must understand the Bible is truthful, authoritative and is both a divine and human book, said Dockery. 'I think it is very possible to move the discussion forward and still talk about the nature of Scripture without using those particular red flag terms'....'I would prefer that we talk about the Scripture as truthful, reliable and authoritative and see it having to be the normative guide for the church, for our lives and for the Christian community,'"

Jerome,

Dear friend, and you point is?

sdg!

rd

 

[TCassidy]

Dear friend, and you[r] point is?

Yes. We need a "huh" icon!

 

[Reynolds]

This is one of the things that irritate me about the BB. You get 150 replies to theological twaddle but nobody wants to participate in what could be a very important discussion.

Honestly, a lot of people (me included) don't know enough about these type subjects to talk about them.

 

[TCassidy]

Honestly, a lot of people (me included) don't know enough about these type subjects to talk about them.

Oh. Okay. But bear in mind you are probably the only poster on the BB who will admit that!

 

[rsr]

Honestly, a lot of people (me included) don't know enough about these type subjects to talk about them.

That doesn't seem to deter some members ...

 

[Reformed]

This is one of the things that irritate me about the BB. You get 150 replies to theological twaddle but nobody wants to participate in what could be a very important discussion.

Maybe that is because those of us who are not Southern Baptist do not feel it is our right to jump into an intramural squabble.

 

[TCassidy]

Maybe that is because those of us who are not Southern Baptist do not feel it is our right to jump into an intramural squabble.

But being SBC is not the point.

 

[Rhetorician]

But being SBC is not the point.

Bro. Cassidy,

I think you are correct being SBC is not the point, being as astute observer of church and culture in general is the issue with which we are dealing IMHO, my POV; is the issue.

sdg!

rd

 

[Rhetorician]

Honestly, a lot of people (me included) don't know enough about these type subjects to talk about them.

Dear Bro. Reynolds,

I say this with all gentleness, maybe you need to educate yourself and / or be educated on the different strains of Fundamentalism / Evangelicalism so that in fact you could talk intelligently about these and other attendant issues. Some issues that had implications and ramifications in the past are still causing ripples today. And no doubt will into the future. Think about it, how we are, theologically or sociologically, did not just fall out of the sky--we came to be how we are. You and I may not like it, but it behooves us to at least examine these issues.

My thoughts!

Yours?

sdg!

rd

 

[Rhetorician]

This is one of the things that irritate me about the BB. You get 150 replies to theological twaddle but nobody wants to participate in what could be a very important discussion.

Bro. Cassidy,

Maybe it is up to us to help squelch the "theological twaddle" as you call it? But I find more of those who are arrogantly ignorant and want to hold on to their ignorance than to maybe admit they might be wrong or have been wrong in the past. It takes a real man to look at his belief system, to ask God to help him examine it critically, and then repent of a long-held view. Men's manhood might be at stage, pride may have to take a fall. Some would even have to develop something that they may have never had nor will ever have--a teachable spirit.

I speak not from a prideful spirit (I hope), I speak not as an academic (I hope), but only from years and years observing the BB and on the BB. And please take this in the spirit in which it is given.

My two cents worth!

sdg!

rd

 

[Reformed]

But being SBC is not the point.

You know I am not shy about sharing my opinions but commenting on SBC internal fights means I have to make uninformed assumptions. I would rather bone up on the topic first and decide whether I have anything of value to add to the discussion.

 

[Reynolds]

Dear Bro. Reynolds,

I say this with all gentleness, maybe you need to educate yourself and / or be educated on the different strains of Fundamentalism / Evangelicalism so that in fact you could talk intelligently about these and other attendant issues. Some issues that had implications and ramifications in the past are still causing ripples today. And no doubt will into the future. Think about it, how we are, theologically or sociologically, did not just fall out of the sky--we came to be how we are. You and I may not like it, but it behooves us to at least examine these issues.

My thoughts!

Yours?

sdg!

rd

I kept up with the "politics" of the SBC for quite a number of years. I have now become more concerned with the Church than I am with denominations of it. The SBC lost me when it went on the apologising for its past kick. I will listen to the link shortly and comment on it.