Unhitch the OT?

[church mouse guy]

North Point Community Church Senior Pastor Andy Stanley has stated that Christians need to "unhitch" the Old Testament from their faith.

Christians Must 'Unhitch' Old Testament From Their Faith, Says Andy Stanley

I have lived too long--I don't even know what Andy Stanley is talking about.

cmg

 

[Yeshua1]

North Point Community Church Senior Pastor Andy Stanley has stated that Christians need to "unhitch" the Old Testament from their faith.

Christians Must 'Unhitch' Old Testament From Their Faith, Says Andy Stanley

I have lived too long--I don't even know what Andy Stanley is talking about.

cmg

So we have to get rid of the only Bible Jesus and the Apostles read and knew about?

 

[Deacon]

Andy Stanley is a lightening rod for some people.
The article reads like a typical net-bait article, long on inference, short on specifics.
You’d need to hear his sermon (and its context) to find his real meaning.

Rob

 

[Revmitchell]

The op give plenty of background and context. Regardless there is no context in which such statements should be made. At best it was a poor use of words.

 

[1689Dave]

I'm cautious of Andy Stanley. But as long as New Covenant believers fail to realize Jesus replaced all of the Old Covenant, moral, civil, and ceremonial, with the New Covenant, they will remain in bondage that keeps them from fully understanding the message of the New Covenant.

The Old Covenant is good for commentary, and for instruction, but we are over it, not under it.

 

[Reformed]

I'm cautious of Andy Stanley. But as long as New Covenant believers fail to realize Jesus replaced all of the Old Covenant, moral, civil, and ceremonial, with the New Covenant, they will remain in bondage that keeps them from fully understanding the message of the New Covenant.

The Old Covenant is good for commentary, and for instruction, but we are over it, not under it.

I'm concerned about any New Covenant believer that fails to realize God's moral pre-dated and transcends the Law of Moses and dives headlong into the error of New Covenant Theology. I will not comment t again on this rabbit trail in this thread.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Yeshua1]

Andy Stanley is a lightening rod for some people.
The article reads like a typical net-bait article, long on inference, short on specifics.
You’d need to hear his sermon (and its context) to find his real meaning.

Rob

Seems pretty straight forward to me, as in He just wants to be under the NT itself.

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm cautious of Andy Stanley. But as long as New Covenant believers fail to realize Jesus replaced all of the Old Covenant, moral, civil, and ceremonial, with the New Covenant, they will remain in bondage that keeps them from fully understanding the message of the New Covenant.

The Old Covenant is good for commentary, and for instruction, but we are over it, not under it.

We are still under the moral obligations of the law of God though!

 

[Yeshua1]

I'm concerned about any New Covenant believer that fails to realize God's moral pre-dated and transcends the Law of Moses and dives headlong into the error of New Covenant Theology. I will not comment t again on this rabbit trail in this thread.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

We are still under the obligation to his moral Law!

 

[1689Dave]

We are still under the moral obligations of the law of God though!

Not at all. We are under the Two Great Commandments. But, any who observe these also fulfill the moral principles of the Ten Commandments.

Think about it this way. If you live according to the Two Great Commandments, you will do the exact opposite of what the Ten Commandments forbade. Do not steal = give to others. Do not kill enemies = Love enemies. And so on. Al capone could keep the Ten Commandments if it was to his advantage. Not stealing is easy. But to give to others as your equal, only the born-again can do.

 

[1689Dave]

I'm concerned about any New Covenant believer that fails to realize God's moral pre-dated and transcends the Law of Moses and dives headlong into the error of New Covenant Theology. I will not comment t again on this rabbit trail in this thread.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

If you consider anyone who lives according to the Two Great Commandments, already keeps the moral aspects of the Ten without trying. In the New Covenant, not stealing = giving. Not killing enemies = loving and blessing them. And so on.

 

[Yeshua1]

Not at all. We are under the Two Great Commandments. But, any who observe these also fulfill the moral principles of the Ten Commandments.

Think about it this way. If you live according to the Two Great Commandments, you will do the exact opposite of what the Ten Commandments forbade. Do not steal = give to others. Do not kill enemies = Love enemies. And so on. Al capone could keep the Ten Commandments if it was to his advantage. Not stealing is easy. But to give to others as your equal, only the born-again can do.

I think your example though actually proves that the 10 Commandments are still all being help up as the Moral standards of God...

 

[1689Dave]

I think your example though actually proves that the 10 Commandments are still all being help up as the Moral standards of God...

We are Over the Law. not Under it. If you have Christ in your heart, love is your motive. Thus, the Two Great Commandments.

But the Ten Commandments could not produce love in the heart. They only threatened death for disobedience, and offered temporal, physical rewards for obedience. You could hate everyone yet not steal from them even though you wanted to....

 

[Yeshua1]

We are Over the Law. not Under it. If you have Christ in your heart, love is your motive. Thus, the Two Great Commandments.

But the Ten Commandments could not produce love in the heart. They only threatened death for disobedience, and offered temporal, physical rewards for obedience. You could hate everyone yet not steal from them even though you wanted to....

The Law was not given to the unsaved for the purpose of salvation, but it is the standard for the saved to aspire towards now though!

 

[1689Dave]

The Law was not given to the unsaved for the purpose of salvation, but it is the standard for the saved to aspire towards now though!

Not really. “Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” (1 Timothy 1:9–10) (KJV 1900)

 

[Yeshua1]

Not really. “Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” (1 Timothy 1:9–10) (KJV 1900)

The Moral law of God is still in effect, correct?

 

[1689Dave]

The Moral law of God is still in effect, correct?

No. It was the heart of the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant) replaced by the New Covenant. However, the Two Great Commandments remain. And these when obeyed, fulfill the righteousness of the Ten, millions of times over. The Ten could not produce love in the heart. Only fear of material loss for disobeying them. The Two preceded the Ten (which hung from them) and are no different from what Abel, Abraham, or any of the faithful listed in Hebrews 11 had. The Ten controlled the wicked unbelievers in ways similar to our civil laws today.

 

[Yeshua1]

No. It was the heart of the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant) replaced by the New Covenant. However, the Two Great Commandments remain. And these when obeyed, fulfill the righteousness of the Ten, millions of times over. The Ten could not produce love in the heart. Only fear of material loss for disobeying them. The Two preceded the Ten (which hung from them) and are no different from what Abel, Abraham, or any of the faithful listed in Hebrews 11 had. The Ten controlled the wicked unbelievers in ways similar to our civil laws today.

So the Moral standard of the Law are now null and void?

 

[church mouse guy]

So the Moral standard of the Law are now null and void?

There are all sorts of problems with unhitching the Old Testament. One that comes to mind after visiting the Ark Encounter in Kentucky is the beautiful tribute to Noah in Genesis:

Genesis 5:29 (KJV) And he called his name Noah, saying, This [same] shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

 

[1689Dave]

So the Moral standard of the Law are now null and void?

How can a person be justified by the moral standards of the Ten Commandments? God gave them to control the wicked Jews. There is no morality in them. The Jews thought they were good for not stealing, even though they wanted to. And the more they wanted to steal and did not, the better they thought they were.

But the faithful like Abraham did not want to steal. The did the opposite of stealing, they gave and delighted in it. Why? because of the New Birth and the Two Great Commandments uncovered in their hearts.