End times thoughts - continued

[1689Dave]

If there was not to be a literal Kingdom time of reign by Jesus here at the time of the Second Coming, why have that mentioned in the Text?

Because, it is symbolic and not literal. If the 1000 years are literal, you know when the world will end. But Jesus says only the Father knows this. If you are pre-trib, you know the end will happen 1007 years after the so called rapture. But again, only the Father knows the time of the end.

 

[Yeshua1]

Because, it is symbolic and not literal. If the 1000 years are literal, you know when the world will end. But Jesus says only the Father knows this. If you are pre-trib, you know the end will happen 1007 years after the so called rapture. But again, only the Father knows the time of the end.

The world does not end, gets reborn, and none of us know when the Second event will be, correct?

 

[1689Dave]

The world does not end, gets reborn, and none of us know when the Second event will be, correct?

But if you are pre-trip and premillennial, you know from the time of the rapture when the world will end. 1007 years from then.
This is another reason to keep all of the symbols in the passage as symbols representing spiritual truth.

 

[Yeshua1]

But if you are pre-trip and premillennial, you know from the time of the rapture when the world will end. 1007 years from then.
This is another reason to keep all of the symbols in the passage as symbols representing spiritual truth.

I am a Covenant premil person....

 

[agedman]

I think a literal 1000 years has many problems. But for starters, all of the passage that mentions the 1000 years is symbolic. The angel, the chain, the serpent, the bottomless pit are all symbols that depict a spiritual reality. So why break stride and make the last symbol, the 1000 years literal? Plus, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom, so where do Gog and Magog come from? We have more questions if interested.

1). The problems only come when passages are no taken in the fullest capacity.

2) how do you know that such is not literal? Just because humankind cannot perceive beyond some physical aspect has no bearing that the Scriptures teach that even the physical is made of that which is not seen.

3) there is no “stride breaking” unless one predetermined to place the events in some human rationalization of realization.

Such was and continues to be the perspective of those a century ago who could not perceive of the horrible destruction world wide and the powers of nations at the time of that great final battle in the valley.

Such thinking forced a distortion of the Scriptures into what was as unimaginative as the Pharisees viewed the first advent and the cross.

If one does not take the presented truth of the last five chapters then for what energy and rationalization prevents the immagination to make the very Christ but a phantom, the cross but a swooning, the heavenly hope but so much empty promise. We’re not all apostate thinking?

If one takes any of it factual, then by all rights it is all factual

 

[agedman]

But if you are pre-trip and premillennial, you know from the time of the rapture when the world will end. 1007 years from then.
This is another reason to keep all of the symbols in the passage as symbols representing spiritual truth.

And this is a problem?

Frankly, I don’t care when the catching of those who are alive and remain will meet Him, but it states in Scripture such will occur and it is foolhardy to deny one part and think one can hold to the rest.

All Scripture is valid, or none is.

 

[agedman]

Because, it is symbolic and not literal. If the 1000 years are literal, you know when the world will end. But Jesus says only the Father knows this. If you are pre-trib, you know the end will happen 1007 years after the so called rapture. But again, only the Father knows the time of the end.

This is most inaccurate.

Only the Father knows when the Son is given to return, NOT the end of the this world.

Have you not read the last 5 chapters of the Revelation?

The Father knows when He will send the Son to this earth as It states He will come shown chronologically in the last 5 chapters of the Revelation.

 

[agedman]

Either this is taken as literally as it is given or there is no reason to take anything literally in the Scriptures:

1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. Theyahad not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

 

[Iconoclast]

The "end times" started with the first coming and will end with the second coming.

Yes Hebrews 1:1-3

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As usual you "Y" have no Scriptures to support your heretical tweets.

No he has the entire “Left Behind” paperback series that he purchased at Walmart. And if he starts referencing Mr. Frodo and Gandalf the Gray, well ya know he also has the Tolkien trilogy laying around.

 

[Rolfe]

Glad to see that you are contributing again,

EWF- Thanks for the kind word.

 

[agedman]

End times do not end with the second coming. The second coming ends no “time” but significant in the final ending of time.

Here is the proper “end of time” according to the Scripture.

7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.​

 

[Covenanter]

This is most inaccurate.

Only the Father knows when the Son is given to return, NOT the end of the this world.

Have you not read the last 5 chapters of the Revelation?

The Father knows when He will send the Son to this earth as It states He will come shown chronologically in the last 5 chapters of the Revelation.

Sorry, A-M but I begin reading Revelation from the beginning, not the ending. And I do believe what is written there in plain language.

1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw – that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.​

Those words indicate that the events prophesied will have their fulfilment in the first century, not thousands of years in the future. The obvious time is the AD 70 destruction, as prophesied by the LORD Jesus in his Olivet prophecy, so indicating a date of the early 60s.

4 John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father – to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.​

This is our present tense experience, the fulfilment of the Old Covenant promise in Exodus 19, quoted by Peter in 1 Peter 2.

 

[1689Dave]

This is most inaccurate.

Only the Father knows when the Son is given to return, NOT the end of the this world.

Have you not read the last 5 chapters of the Revelation?

The Father knows when He will send the Son to this earth as It states He will come shown chronologically in the last 5 chapters of the Revelation.

“Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. “But as for that day and hour no one knows it—not even the angels in heaven—except the Father alone.” (Matthew 24:35–36)

 

[1689Dave]

And this is a problem?

Frankly, I don’t care when the catching of those who are alive and remain will meet Him, but it states in Scripture such will occur and it is foolhardy to deny one part and think one can hold to the rest.

All Scripture is valid, or none is.

But, only the Father knows the time of the end. “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. “But as for that day and hour no one knows it—not even the angels in heaven—except the Father alone.” (Matthew 24:35–36)

 

[1689Dave]

1). The problems only come when passages are no taken in the fullest capacity.

2) how do you know that such is not literal? Just because humankind cannot perceive beyond some physical aspect has no bearing that the Scriptures teach that even the physical is made of that which is not seen.

3) there is no “stride breaking” unless one predetermined to place the events in some human rationalization of realization.

Such was and continues to be the perspective of those a century ago who could not perceive of the horrible destruction world wide and the powers of nations at the time of that great final battle in the valley.

Such thinking forced a distortion of the Scriptures into what was as unimaginative as the Pharisees viewed the first advent and the cross.

If one does not take the presented truth of the last five chapters then for what energy and rationalization prevents the immagination to make the very Christ but a phantom, the cross but a swooning, the heavenly hope but so much empty promise. We’re not all apostate thinking?

If one takes any of it factual, then by all rights it is all factual

Why are the 1000 years literal when the angel, the chain, the serpent, the bottomless pit are not?

 

[1689Dave]

I am a Covenant premil person....

I studied most of the millennial positions over the years and dabbled in each for a while. Eventually believing the Reformed Amillennial position to be closest to the bible. But I had problems with it too. Mainly in the visible, institutional church idea of unbelievers being members. When I realized only believers make up the body of Christ, I replaced their Physical idea of church with the spiritual and things began making sense from that point on.

But all Millennial theories, including the Reformed, call for a physical kingdom. So I reject all of these knowing the kingdom is purely spiritual and heavenly. And unless a person is born again, they will never see it.

 

[agedman]

But, only the Father knows the time of the end. “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. “But as for that day and hour no one knows it—not even the angels in heaven—except the Father alone.” (Matthew 24:35–36)

Again, this is a problem?

The return to rule is not known by any but the father, but that isn’t the end of all matters.

Except in the rationalization of those who do and did not take the final chapters of the Revelation as factual

 

[1689Dave]

Again, this is a problem?

The return to rule is not known by any but the father, but that isn’t the end of all matters.

Except in the rationalization of those who do and did not take the final chapters of the Revelation as factual

The problem is in the literal 1000 years pinpointing the end of the world. That only the Father knows. The symbolic 1000 years alleviates this problem. And it also harmonizes with the rest of the symbols in the context.

 

[agedman]

Why are the 1000 years literal when the angel, the chain, the serpent, the bottomless pit are not?

What claimant would declare such are not literal?

The Bible states them as real does it not?

What warrant is given to proclaim what the Bible states will happen is to be taken as smoke and mirrors?