The Spiritual kingdom is the state right ow, and only saved are in it, but when Jesus returns, the survivors going into his physical manifested Kingdom here will be flash and blood!
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End times thoughts - continued
- Thread starter Covenanter
- Start date
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Not scriptural. The kingdom is eternal, not 1000 years long. And flesh and blood cannot enter it. Moreover, Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world.
at the time He stated it, that was true, but at His second coming event, that Kingdom hall be established over whole earth, remember Great Stone/Rock Daniel saw?
Correction agreed - thanks.What?
Am I reading correctly or did you miswrite?
NNE is "acquitted" "whose name was not found written in the book of life," that is just not Scriptural!
ONLY those who are in the book of life, have life. NONE other!
Not so - there were those whose names were in the book of life at the GWT judgment. The bodily resurrection before the GWT judgment is of ALL the dead including the saved in the book of life -
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
You're thinking of Daniel 2 - Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
Dan. 2:44 ‘In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure for ever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands – a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.
‘The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy.’
‘The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy.’
That vision was of the Empires that followed Babylon - leading up the the incarnation of Jesus & his heavenly kingdom at his ascension.
And note Dan. 7 -
Dan. 7:26 ‘“But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed for ever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.”
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
The kingdom is eternal and we are in it now. Remember, Jesus and Paul preached the kingdom as a present reality. Later, at the resurrection, Jesus delivers the kingdom up to the Father into the new heavens and earth where it continues forever.
The reason many cannot see it is because they are not born again. But some who are born again are misguided thinking the kingdom is physical. This is one of the reasons the Pharisees rejected Christ. But the kingdom is of faith, not sight. And many want a physical kingdom they can see instead of one needing faith to enter.
You are smushing the chronology presentation of the last five chapters of the Revelation into some blend that is not consistent with that presentation as recorded by John.
The believer is NOT in the kingdom at this time, but we are Ambassadors of that kingdom. That is the preaching of the Apostles. The ambassador of the kingdom serves in a foreign field in which they have no allegiance to that foreign place, nor are they permanent residents of that place, but are the representative of the ruler of a kingdom.
The teaching of the ancients was that the Kingdom of our Lord and His Christ would physically come to this earth and be established as a physical earthly rule in such authority that it was the same as that rule in heaven. What challenge is brought before the God of Heaven? None. There will come a time, when Christ returns, that there will be no challenge to the authority of Christ over all humankind of the earth, both the redeemed and lost will serve Him.
That is the presentation of the Scriptures.
The presentation of the Scriptures is that of a pre-millennial return of Christ to establish His physical kingship over all the earth. A literal, physical, return and establishment of a 1000 year reign unhindered by any satanic influence.
Such teaching may give every camel in the Middle East a hump, but it is never-the-less the truthful presentation of the last five chapters of the Revelation.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
I hold to the Recapitulation view of Revelation. This was also the view of the oldest commentary on Revelation ever found. I do not read the book chronologically. But as a record of seven different views of the same events, giving different perspectives on each.
As far as the Kingdom, it is spiritual and unless a person is born again, they cannot see it. Anyone can see a physical kingdom....
atpollard
Well-Known Member
How does this fit within that view?
Revelation 20:1-6
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
In what sense have some of the dead already been raised?
In what sense do they reign with Christ?
Doesn't this pretty explicitly state that there will be two resurrections? (can a resurrection be only 'spiritual'?)
This has been answered earlier in the thread, but Jesus very specifically taught a spiritual resurrection - conversion to a living faith in Jesus - distinct from a general, bodily resurrection, in John 5.
24 ‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
28 ‘Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out – those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Jesus mentions two resurrections in this passage.
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28–29)
As far as Revelation 20, I interpret it symbolically, looking for what the symbols represent instead of looking for the symbols to literally materialize. It is an overview of Christ's first coming, the entire New Covenant era, culminating in his second coming.
The angel = Greek for messenger
the chain = the message (gospel, Satan is a liar and the truth binds him)
the 1000 years = a perfectly complete block of time (1000 in scripture denotes entirety)
Satan loosed = the message falls on deaf ears and the world assails the Church from all quarters.
Ironically, I believe we are now in the post Christian era where Satan is loosed and the deceived are attacking the Church with their lies, just before the end.
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The Kingdom will be here in full whenm jesus returns to have it set up, as OT prophets foretold Messiah coming back to earth, and when he arrives, massive earthquake would get triggered for starters!
Prophet daniel foresaw the coming the Rock, Kingdom of God, to the earth, and that all other worldly Kingdoms would be killed, and that kingdom of the Son of Man would now be established!
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You are reading the prophecies just as the blind Pharisees did. This is why they didn't grasp that the Kingdom was there when Jesus said “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)
Daniel was talking of last Antichrist there, has yet to be fulfilled!
And NONE at the GWT will be saved, as all of them will be judged by their works, as the Christian instead judged at Bhema seat of Christ!