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New Covenant

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by steaver, Jun 13, 2018.

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  1. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The New Heavens & Earth (Canaan) do not exist yet.
     
    #101 1689Dave, Jun 26, 2018
  2. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Well you have a problem then, Hebrews says Abraham didn't receive the promise and NT believers did...
     
    #102 steaver, Jun 26, 2018
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They would have had the physical blessings of health and wealth promised to them By God if they keep Him as their Lord over any other so called god, God would resurrect them in the end of days as one of His own ...
    Old covenant really here and now promises, land/wealth/health, bu tthe new one is mainly all spiritual blessings in Christ!
     
    #103 Yeshua1, Jun 26, 2018
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus Himself stated that His Apostles were right now hearing and seeing things those of the Old Covenant longed to see, as they only had the hope for [promise, but they see it coming to pass!
     
    #104 Yeshua1, Jun 26, 2018
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    No problem. The Kingdom began at Pentecost and and becomes fully developed in the New Heavens and Earth.
     
    #105 1689Dave, Jun 26, 2018
  6. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    You provided no scripture as I asked.......
     
    #106 steaver, Jun 26, 2018
  7. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Actually it began with the OT saints who died in faith and the disciples when they received the rebirth of the Holy Spirit after meeting with Jesus after His resurrection and glorification. But close enough, you are making progress. As Hebrews declares, the New Heart begins with the New Covenant and the New Covenant is the beginning of the spiritual Kingdom of God, Christ being the firstborn and believers being the firstfruits of His creatures.
     
    #107 steaver, Jun 26, 2018
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    #108 Yeshua1, Jun 26, 2018
  9. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I see nothing in the passage you site that would correlate with the promises Abraham did not receive yet post cross saints have. Maybe you could be more specific.
     
    #109 steaver, Jun 26, 2018
  10. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    So the Kingdom began post cross, I agree. And Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." As we can see, being born of God begins with the New Covenant. We are making some progress.

    This is a topic (New Covenant) most Calvinist avoid having. We have two Calvinist here now that are appearing to understand the spiritual Kingdom of God began after the cross of Christ. When Jesus said this would be a New Covenant, He meant New, not the Old revised. "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;" (Heb 10)
     
    #110 steaver, Jun 26, 2018
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Hebrews 11-10 he looked forward to, but did not arive there in his time!
     
    #111 Yeshua1, Jun 26, 2018
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Many Calvinist Baptists/reformed, would see that the new Covenant was a new deal between God and man, not just a continuation, a fullness of the Old one, as Presbyterians would!
     
    #112 Yeshua1, Jun 26, 2018
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Did not arrive to what? What was he promised that he did not receive while he was alive but post cross believers did receive and enjoy today?
     
    #113 steaver, Jun 26, 2018
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All of the spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus!
     
    #114 Yeshua1, Jun 26, 2018
  15. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Came you name a few spiritual blessings Abraham did not receive that we now receive?
     
    #115 steaver, Jun 26, 2018
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The new birth began with Abel and all of the faithful.
     
    #116 1689Dave, Jun 27, 2018
  17. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Once again you have a problem then with your position. You rightly said the Kingdom of God began after the cross (you said Penticost but close enough) and Jesus said no one can enter the Kingdom of Heaven unless they be born from above.
     
    #117 steaver, Jun 27, 2018
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This is not a problem. All dying in faith enter heaven at time of death. The Kingdom of God and Heaven are the same thing. Jesus established the Kingdom at Pentecost and will restore it completely at the onset of the New Heavens and Earth.
     
    #118 1689Dave, Jun 27, 2018
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    You are not making any sense brother. Either all pre-cross dying in faith entered the Kingdom of Heaven or the Kingdom of Heaven didn't begin until Pentecost. You have to chose one or the other. The OT saints could not have entered into something that did not begin yet until Pentecost.
     
    #119 steaver, Jun 27, 2018
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I choose both. Here's why. The Kingdom of Heaven always existed. It is eternal. David's Throne was God's throne according to the OT. But the Messiah had not yet been resurrected to sit on His Throne in Heaven until NC times. So think of it as Christ taking David's Throne in Heaven during his resurrection. Where he remains until the end of the world, where he then remains seated on his own throne forever in the New Heavens and earth. Think big..........
     
    #120 1689Dave, Jun 27, 2018
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