Can an unsaved person lead others to Jesus?

[robycop3]

I knew a man who went from a drunk & fornicator to preacher, & he delivered powerful sermons who led dozens to Christ. Then, he slipped back into his old sins, adding dope and theft to them. unfortunately, he died in that state, dying the "rock star death" of washing down too many pills with too much moonshine.

Now, several people claimed he was never saved anyway, and he had no 'faith' to lose, but I heard him preach on several occasions, and his sermons were straight from the Bible and very-powerful, & I found it hard to believe an unsaved person could preach with such power.

After studying s'more history, etc. I came to believe GOD can use anyone for anything, so the real argument is whether that man was saved or not. But I believe the HOLY SPIRIT led him in his preaching, However, I fear for his soul, as he died at a party & had no time for any "deathbed confession". And even if he was unsaved himself he did lead many to Christ.

OTHER READERS' opinions, please?

 

[MartyF]

David murdered a guy to sleep with his wife.

Solomon put other fornicators to shame and built the first temple.

Peter denied Jesus 3 times.

For me, the theft is troubling. I might not want him as a pastor, but God even used Jonah, so I would say he could use this guy too.

I usually find the fornicator redeemed to be a poor choice for a preacher or pastor.

Marty

 

[robycop3]

David murdered a guy to sleep with his wife.

But David , when confronted with his sins, immediately admitted them & prayed to God for forgiveness, & accepted his punishment without complaint.

Solomon put other fornicators to shame and built the first temple.

In Solly's day, it was not unusual for a king to have umpteen wives & concubines. God allowed it then. But where Solly lost it was when an Egyptian wife led him to start worshipping idols.

Peter denied Jesus 3 times.

Jesus caused Peter to do that because Peter had boasted that he'd never deny Jesus, no matter what. And, after the 3rd denial, Pete was very, very remorseful and ashamed. He had not turned his back on Jesus completely; he'd only had a temporary lapse brought on as punishment for boasting. And Dave & Pete didn't die in sin. But we don't know if Solly went to paradise upon his death or not.

For me, the theft is troubling. I might not want him as a pastor, but God even used Jonah, so I would say he could use this guy too.

I usually find the fornicator redeemed to be a poor choice for a preacher or pastor.

Marty

Jonah never abandoned God, either. And I believe that when he went thru Nineveh's streets, he hollered more than "Within 40 days, Nineveh shall be destroyed". I'm sure he told its people who would do the destroying if they didn't repent. But again, the man I was talking about died in a sinful act, so I don't really know what his status with God was at his death.

 

[Felipe Rios]

I knew a man who went from a drunk & fornicator to preacher, & he delivered powerful sermons who led dozens to Christ. Then, he slipped back into his old sins, adding dope and theft to them. unfortunately, he died in that state, dying the "rock star death" of washing down too many pills with too much moonshine.

Now, several people claimed he was never saved anyway, and he had no 'faith' to lose, but I heard him preach on several occasions, and his sermons were straight from the Bible and very-powerful, & I found it hard to believe an unsaved person could preach with such power.

After studying s'more history, etc. I came to believe GOD can use anyone for anything, so the real argument is whether that man was saved or not. But I believe the HOLY SPIRIT led him in his preaching, However, I fear for his soul, as he died at a party & had no time for any "deathbed confession". And even if he was unsaved himself he did lead many to Christ.

OTHER READERS' opinions, please?

I'm sure Judas did that, didn't he?

 

[robycop3]

I'm sure Judas did that, didn't he?

Several of Jesus' disciples were Zealots, a group of Jews who hated Rome & the Romans & who would work violence against them when they could. Among the Zealots were Simon, (called the Zealot) Judas(not Iscariot) and Judas Iscariot.

J.. I. was deeply disappointed that Jesus did not advocate the freeing of the Jews from Roman rule. Apparently, this disappointment was so intense that it caused him to overlook Jesus' Gospel, His miracles, and His real purpose for coming to earth, as well as not seeing His deity.

The temple police sent to arrest Jesus didn't know Him by sight(Remember, Isaiah described Him as being quite ordinary-looking) and judas agreed to point Him out by a greeting kiss. He knew Jesus often went to the garden of Gethsemane to pray, so Judas led the fuzz there, and pointed Jesus out with a greeting kiss.

But J. I died in sin. Jesus had said one of His disciples was a devil. He also said better for that man if he'd never been born. And J. I. led no one to Jesus for salvation.

 

[David Kent]

In Solly's day, it was not unusual for a king to have umpteen wives & concubines. God allowed it then. But where Solly lost it was when an Egyptian wife led him to start worshipping idols.

I think it was more than the Egyptian wife. All his wives seemed to be heathens.

 

[David Kent]

OTHER READERS' opinions, please?

I read of a preacher converted by his own sermon.


“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.” – Hebrews 2:12

The Rev William Haslam was an English country parson whose story is told in two autobiographical volumes – ‘From Death into Life’ and ‘Yet not I’.

One Sunday in 1851 following a period of deep conviction of sin, Haslam ascended into the pulpit of Baldhu church near Truro with the intention of telling his congregation that he would not preach again to them until he was saved and to ask them to pray for his conversion.

However, when he began to preach on the text ‘What think ye of Christ’ he saw himself as a Pharisee who did not recognise that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God. At that moment, the Holy Spirit breathed new life into him and the effect was so obvious and marked that a local preacher who was present stood up and shouted ‘the Parson is converted’ and the people rejoiced ‘in Cornish style’.

Others were also converted on that day, including members of his own household, others fled from the church in fear. A revival followed that blessed Sunday that lasted for three years during which time souls were saved weekly, often daily.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Jesus caused Peter to [deny Jesus three times] because Peter had boasted that he'd never deny Jesus, no matter what.

Are you implying that Jesus made Peter lie and swear? I don't read that anywhere in the Scripture. I do read, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man [with evil]." James 1:13

 

[Baptist Believer]

I'm sure Judas did that, didn't he?

Judas was sent out with the 12, and probably the 70/72 disciples, to proclaim the Kingdom of God, do works of healing and cast out demons.

When we ask these questions, we make the mistake of assuming that the power of the gospel and the Kingdom of God lies in our own gifts and personal power.

 

[TCassidy]

I agree. The very wording of the thread title displays the problem.

We don't "lead others to Christ." The Holy Spirit does that through the gospel message.

It matters not if that gospel message is preached by an evangelist, a pastor, a deacon, a janitor, a child, or it is written on a tract, scribbled on a napkin, or scrawled on the restroom wall. It is the gospel message that draws the lost to Christ.

I was saved reading the bible. No "witness." No "soul-winner." No preacher. Just me, the bible, and the Holy Spirit.

(Not that I am against witnessing, being a soul-winner, or a preacher. It is just that we should always remember salvation is all of God, none of me. Let's make sure God gets the glory.

 

[McCree79]

I read of a preacher converted by his own sermon.

This same thing happened to a Kentucky Preacher in a neighboring county just 2 years ago.



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[Felipe Rios]

Several of Jesus' disciples were Zealots, a group of Jews who hated Rome & the Romans & who would work violence against them when they could. Among the Zealots were Simon, (called the Zealot) Judas(not Iscariot) and Judas Iscariot.

J.. I. was deeply disappointed that Jesus did not advocate the freeing of the Jews from Roman rule. Apparently, this disappointment was so intense that it caused him to overlook Jesus' Gospel, His miracles, and His real purpose for coming to earth, as well as not seeing His deity.

The temple police sent to arrest Jesus didn't know Him by sight(Remember, Isaiah described Him as being quite ordinary-looking) and judas agreed to point Him out by a greeting kiss. He knew Jesus often went to the garden of Gethsemane to pray, so Judas led the fuzz there, and pointed Jesus out with a greeting kiss.

But J. I died in sin. Jesus had said one of His disciples was a devil. He also said better for that man if he'd never been born. And J. I. led no one to Jesus for salvation.

I think you are making an assumption without scripture. Jesus sent the 12 apostles to preach and cast out demons, and that included leading people to Jesus. I would make a good assumption that he lead people to Jesus even though he was the son of perdition.

 

[Revmitchell]

I knew a man who went from a drunk & fornicator to preacher, & he delivered powerful sermons who led dozens to Christ. Then, he slipped back into his old sins, adding dope and theft to them. unfortunately, he died in that state, dying the "rock star death" of washing down too many pills with too much moonshine.

Now, several people claimed he was never saved anyway, and he had no 'faith' to lose, but I heard him preach on several occasions, and his sermons were straight from the Bible and very-powerful, & I found it hard to believe an unsaved person could preach with such power.

After studying s'more history, etc. I came to believe GOD can use anyone for anything, so the real argument is whether that man was saved or not. But I believe the HOLY SPIRIT led him in his preaching, However, I fear for his soul, as he died at a party & had no time for any "deathbed confession". And even if he was unsaved himself he did lead many to Christ.

OTHER READERS' opinions, please?

Did he die denying Christ?

 

[David Kent]

Did he die denying Christ?

What do you think?

 

[David Kent]

I agree. The very wording of the thread title displays the problem.

We don't "lead others to Christ." The Holy Spirit does that through the gospel message.

It matters not if that gospel message is preached by an evangelist, a pastor, a deacon, a janitor, a child, or it is written on a tract, scribbled on a napkin, or scrawled on the restroom wall. It is the gospel message that draws the lost to Christ.

I was saved reading the bible. No "witness." No "soul-winner." No preacher. Just me, the bible, and the Holy Spirit.

(Not that I am against witnessing, being a soul-winner, or a preacher. It is just that we should always remember salvation is all of God, none of me. Let's make sure God gets the glory.

Exactly.
There is an Elder in a church in London, who was a Turlish Cypriot Muslim As a child he lived next to a Baptist Church and doesn't remember any contacts with the Church. They were forbiden to go into the Church grounds but used to kick their balls over to see what was happening. One day, he read a bible and was converted.

The same with an Orthodox Jew near here. He said a bible verse came into his head, one that he didn't remember ever reading,

 

[John D. Wright]

The word of God is the seed that planted leads to salvation. Anyone preaching from the bible is preaching the word of God so of course someone can be saved by that preaching. People are saved reading a Gideon's bible in a hotel room while alone. It's the word that matters. It is also why I am critical of any teaching however right and good that does not reflect the text. Exegetical preaching is delivering the true meaning of the text which is the very word of God and leads to salvation in many who hear it.

As for this pastor, I would be undecided whether he was saved or not. I though would not be surprised either way. I believe in this given situation some are saved and some are not.

 

[robycop3]

Are you implying that Jesus made Peter lie and swear? I don't read that anywhere in the Scripture. I do read, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man [with evil]." James 1:13

No, but Jesus knew Peter's human weakness would briefly rise to the forefront of his mind, and He was actually admonishing Peter for boasting. thus, satan was able to arouse Peter's fear of being arrested for following Jesus. No, God didn't do it, but He allowed Satan to do so.

 

[robycop3]

Did he die denying Christ?

I don't know. However, he died at age 43 from ingesting a combo of liquor and dope, which is quite a Christ-denying act.

 

[robycop3]

I think you are making an assumption without scripture. Jesus sent the 12 apostles to preach and cast out demons, and that included leading people to Jesus. I would make a good assumption that he lead people to Jesus even though he was the son of perdition.

History is plain that the Zealots were a class of Jews who were very-opposed to Roman rule & wouldn't hesitate to use violence against Romans when they believed they could get away with it. same as other such groups, some members were more-fervent than others. Sor example, Barabbas was an extreme Zealot, much-admired by the Jews in general for giving the Romans a bad time, but there's no evidence that any of Jesus' disciples who were Zealots worked any violence against the Romans.

As for Judas Iscariot, he was the treasurer for the disciples, and a thief:

John 12:
4 But one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, who would betray Him, said, 5 “Why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?” 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.

It's very unlikely that Judas was ever saved, but we can only speculate as to whether he led anyone to Jesus or not. However, scripture DOES say Jesus gave the power to work miracles to ALL the disciples, but we know for sure what eventually became of Judas, as Jesus said, "Better for that man if he'd never been born".

 

[bomac17]

Yes. It's the power of the Word of God, not the preacher.