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Which churches are growing?

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Walter

Walter

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Dan Glass said:
I have seen no statistics to bear out the assertion that the RC church is thriving, at least in the US. In my city, once the home of a vibrant Catholic community churches and schools have closed, and most of those I know who once attended those schools have drifted away. The local Archdiocese is bankrupt, or nearly so, due to payouts to victims of child abuse, partly owing to an institutional practice of criminal coverups which has been well documented. There is a notable shortage of those entering the priesthood. Meanwhile, it is the megachurch phenomenon that seems to be thriving the most locally, with one huge Baptist, a couple of charismatics, a reformed and at least one Lutheran megachurch. But numbers really don't mean much anyway as a measure of spiritual vitality.
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The Catholic Church is growing fast where I live. Fastest growing church worldwide according to the stats.
 
D

Deadworm

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Yeshua1 said:
Would paul be wrong if he was here today, and stating that Rome taught another and a false Gospel?
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No, Paul would accuse you of watering down his Gospel and would enthusiastically endorse the basics of the Catholic presentation of the Gospel which you attack without even engaging its particulars biblically. I have laid out those particulars in my thread and you have no answer to that presentation.
 
Y

Yeshua1

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Deadworm said:
No, Paul would accuse you of watering down his Gospel and would enthusiastically endorse the basics of the Catholic presentation of the Gospel which you attack without even engaging its particulars biblically. I have laid out those particulars in my thread and you have no answer to that presentation.
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The Council of trent is very excplit that ANY who teaches the Pauline view on Justifcation is teachable damnable heresy!

If they agree with paul, where did Paul mention purgetory? Where he mention have to agree and use 7 sacraments of Grace?
 
Walter

Walter

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Yeshua1 said:
The Council of trent is very excplit that ANY who teaches the Pauline view on Justifcation is teachable damnable heresy!

If they agree with paul, where did Paul mention purgetory? Where he mention have to agree and use 7 sacraments of Grace?
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Since you (as usual) ignore any link that is posted of previous evangelicals that have LEFT to become Catholic after much study, I will re-post a tidbit of what you ignored. BTW, you want to know where Paul mentions Purgatory? Show me chapter and verse where he mentions the word Trinity, please.

'What I found was an amazing unanimity on the central doctrines of the faith. Not that the early Fathers agreed on every point-there were development of doctrine and theological controversies throughout Christian history. But what was the Church like during the first four centuries of Christianity?

Ordained bishops headed the local churches, with the bishop of Rome (Peter's successor) having primacy over the other bishops; the Church celebrated the Mass and considered it a representation of Christ's once-for-all sacrifice on the cross; the Church honored Mary, said prayers for the dead, and believed in final purification after death which we now call purgatory. [The following citations are from St. Augustine (paragraph numbers from Jurgens'Faith of the Early Fathers ): primacy of the Bishop of Rome: 1418, 1507, 1862; Mass as a sacrifice: 1424, 1844, 1977; honoring Mary: 1518, 1643, 1644, 1794, 1974(d); prayers for the dead: 1513, 1516, 1780, 1930, 1934; Purgatory: 1467, 1544, 1776, 1920.] I did not find the early Fathers teaching salvation by faith alone, the Bible as the sole rule of faith, or the " Pre-tribulational Rapture."
 
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Yeshua1

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Walter said:
Since you (as usual) ignore any link that is posted of previous evangelicals that have LEFT to become Catholic after much study, I will re-post a tidbit of what you ignored. BTW, you want to know where Paul mentions Purgatory? Show me chapter and verse where he mentions the word Trinity, please.

'What I found was an amazing unanimity on the central doctrines of the faith. Not that the early Fathers agreed on every point-there were development of doctrine and theological controversies throughout Christian history. But what was the Church like during the first four centuries of Christianity?

Ordained bishops headed the local churches, with the bishop of Rome (Peter's successor) having primacy over the other bishops; the Church celebrated the Mass and considered it a representation of Christ's once-for-all sacrifice on the cross; the Church honored Mary, said prayers for the dead, and believed in final purification after death which we now call purgatory. [The following citations are from St. Augustine (paragraph numbers from Jurgens'Faith of the Early Fathers ): primacy of the Bishop of Rome: 1418, 1507, 1862; Mass as a sacrifice: 1424, 1844, 1977; honoring Mary: 1518, 1643, 1644, 1794, 1974(d); prayers for the dead: 1513, 1516, 1780, 1930, 1934; Purgatory: 1467, 1544, 1776, 1920.] I did not find the early Fathers teaching salvation by faith alone, the Bible as the sole rule of faith, or the " Pre-tribulational Rapture."
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The Gospel of Christ is NOT the one held by Rome, period.
The Croiss of CXhrist gives a sinenr immediate and complete Justification, NO need for any of that Sacramental Grcae to get saved!
 
Walter

Walter

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Yeshua1 said:
Some of the fastest growing churches have had thousands of ex Catholics get really saved and brought out of darkness, such as John MacArthur church!
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According to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life’s 2007 Religious Landscape Survey, roughly 8 percent of Catholics were raised in other churches as evangelicals. This compares with 9 percent of evangelical Christians who were raised Catholic. Not much difference.
 
agedman

agedman

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Growth has NEVER been a sign of God's approval! Such thinking is as my marine friends say, "Stinking thinking."

Rather, FEW find the narrow way that leads to righteousness.
 
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Yeshua1

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agedman said:
Growth has NEVER been a sign of God's approval! Such thinking is as my marine friends say, "Stinking thinking."

Rather, FEW find the narrow way that leads to righteousness.
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2 Timothy 4:3, gives to us what kind of churches are booming now, the ones that are man centered, not God centered!
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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Walter said:
Since you (as usual) ignore any link that is posted of previous evangelicals that have LEFT to become Catholic after much study, I will re-post a tidbit of what you ignored. BTW, you want to know where Paul mentions Purgatory? Show me chapter and verse where he mentions the word Trinity, please.

'What I found was an amazing unanimity on the central doctrines of the faith. Not that the early Fathers agreed on every point-there were development of doctrine and theological controversies throughout Christian history. But what was the Church like during the first four centuries of Christianity?

Ordained bishops headed the local churches, with the bishop of Rome (Peter's successor) having primacy over the other bishops; the Church celebrated the Mass and considered it a representation of Christ's once-for-all sacrifice on the cross; the Church honored Mary, said prayers for the dead, and believed in final purification after death which we now call purgatory. [The following citations are from St. Augustine (paragraph numbers from Jurgens'Faith of the Early Fathers ): primacy of the Bishop of Rome: 1418, 1507, 1862; Mass as a sacrifice: 1424, 1844, 1977; honoring Mary: 1518, 1643, 1644, 1794, 1974(d); prayers for the dead: 1513, 1516, 1780, 1930, 1934; Purgatory: 1467, 1544, 1776, 1920.] I did not find the early Fathers teaching salvation by faith alone, the Bible as the sole rule of faith, or the " Pre-tribulational Rapture."
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Yes, pre trib rapture... now there is the sour point ( the underlying core problem ) that your detractors are protecting.
 
Reynolds

Reynolds

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agedman said:
Growth has NEVER been a sign of God's approval! Such thinking is as my marine friends say, "Stinking thinking."

Rather, FEW find the narrow way that leads to righteousness.
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Well, if you are spreading the Gospel and disciplining the converts, how can your church not grow. I think many here are looking for excuses for having a non growing church. A church that is not growing is not fulfilling the Great Commission.
The exception to that might be isolated geographic area. For the most part, if thousands live within a few miles of your church and its not busting at the seams, the reason is your church is lazy.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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Reynolds said:
Well, if you are spreading the Gospel and disciplining the converts, how can your church not grow. I think many here are looking for excuses for having a non growing church. A church that is not growing is not fulfilling the Great Commission.
The exception to that might be isolated geographic area. For the most part, if thousands live within a few miles of your church and its not busting at the seams, the reason is your church is lazy.
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I’d add, out of touch with the community.
 
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