Do Baptists Use the Term "Sacrament" in Communion?

[HopefulNChrist]

Do Baptists use the term "sacrament" in communion service?

Do you believe Christ's Presence is in the sacraments?

If not to the second question, then why use the term originally used by Catholics that mean otherwise?

Shouldn't we show our faith by our words as standing apart from the works i.e. the sacraments of Catholicism which they believe are necessary for salvation?

How hard is it to hold communion without using the word "sacrament"? None at all, from what I can see.

But... if you believe Christ's Presence is in the bread and the wine, then I reckon you'll be voting "Yes".

And yet, I'd say it is a poor witness of our faith if Baptists believe they are "coming into His Presence" at communion because Catholics will be misled to believe that you believe as they do.

My former Presbyterian church did that for why there were Catholic members in that church. Go figure.

And yes, asking for the Presence of the Holy Spirit to be in the worship place is an iniquity when He is in us.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

 

[InTheLight]

Do Baptists use the term "sacrament" in communion service?

No.

Do you believe Christ's Presence is in the sacraments?

No.

If not to the second question, then why use the term originally used by Catholics that mean otherwise?

We don't.

How hard is it to hold communion without using the word "sacrament"?

Extremely easy, since we don't use the term.

We don't use the word "sacrament" or even acknowledge it's validity.

Generally speaking, we don't use the term "communion", rather "the Lord's Supper" is used (though communion is gaining wider acceptance of late.)

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[Squire Robertsson]

The commemoration of the Lord's Table is like Believer's Immersion (Baptism) an ordinance of the local church.

 

[Reformed]

28.1 of the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith describes the Lord's Supper and Communion as:

28.1 Baptism and the Lord's Supper are ordinances of positive and sovereign institution, appointed by the Lord Jesus, the only lawgiver, to be continued in his church to the end of the world.

The operative word is ordinances. That said, there is nothing unbiblical about the word sacrament. As Baptists, we are sensitive to the word because of its close association with Roman Catholicism. The word means an outward visible sign of an inward spiritual reality. When used strictly in that context it is fine. Our Presbyterian brethren use the term in exactly that way. But as I said earlier, Baptists are sensitive to the Roman Catholic appropriation of the word. Personally, I think ordinance is the appropriate word to use.

 

[Yeshua1]

Do Baptists use the term "sacrament" in communion service?

Do you believe Christ's Presence is in the sacraments?

If not to the second question, then why use the term originally used by Catholics that mean otherwise?

Shouldn't we show our faith by our words as standing apart from the works i.e. the sacraments of Catholicism which they believe are necessary for salvation?

How hard is it to hold communion without using the word "sacrament"? None at all, from what I can see.

But... if you believe Christ's Presence is in the bread and the wine, then I reckon you'll be voting "Yes".

And yet, I'd say it is a poor witness of our faith if Baptists believe they are "coming into His Presence" at communion because Catholics will be misled to believe that you believe as they do.

My former Presbyterian church did that for why there were Catholic members in that church. Go figure.

And yes, asking for the Presence of the Holy Spirit to be in the worship place is an iniquity when He is in us.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

I am a Reformed Baptist , so would see the spiritual presense of jesus with us when we partake of the ordiance, but its main function is to be the outward sign of the inward work of the Holy Spirit already accomplish in us!

 

[Yeshua1]

28.1 of the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith describes the Lord's Supper and Communion as:

28.1 Baptism and the Lord's Supper are ordinances of positive and sovereign institution, appointed by the Lord Jesus, the only lawgiver, to be continued in his church to the end of the world.

The operative word is ordinances. That said, there is nothing unbiblical about the word sacrament. As Baptists, we are sensitive to the word because of its close association with Roman Catholicism. The word means an outward visible sign of an inward spiritual reality. When used strictly in that context it is fine. Our Presbyterian brethren use the term in exactly that way. But as I said earlier, Baptists are sensitive to the Roman Catholic appropriation of the word. Personally, I think ordinance is the appropriate word to use.

Agreed, but i also do see the spiritual presense with us of Jesus while we partake in faith! A reformed view

 

[Reformed]

Agreed, but i also do see the spiritual presense with us of Jesus while we partake in faith! A reformed view

But not in the elements.

 

[Yeshua1]

But not in the elements.

True, He is with us, but not in the elements themselves!

 

[Jerome]

Reformed Baptists consider it a sacrament:

publication of the Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America (ARBCA)

"ARBCA General Assembly, held at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in La Mirada, Calif. . . .Dr. Richard Barcellos of Heritage Baptist Church, Owensboro, Ky., spoke on 'The Lord’s Supper as Means of Grace', focusing on the benefits that communion conveys to believers – it’s not just a memorial meal. Those benefits include sanctifying grace indued to the soul, the benefits of Christ’s body and blood nourishes believers’ souls, the frequency of the supper, and its links with the past, 'do this in remembrance of Me', present 'the cup of blessing which we drink,' and future 'do this till I come,' as recorded by Christ’s directives. He noted that 'baptism is a sacrament of spiritual birth; the Lord’s Supper is a sacrament of spiritual feeding.'"

 

[Jerome]

You also might find that thinking amongst Southern Baptist moderates:

Southern Baptist theologian Nathan Finn explains:

http://v7.swbts.edu/tasks/render/file/?fileID=822376A2-AA7F-3A6A-E6628478A88E74D5

"most Baptist churches prefer to call them 'ordinances'"

"Most Baptists have historically held a 'memorial view' of the Lord’s Supper, recalling Jesus’ command that the ordinance be observed 'in remembrance of me.'"

"In contrast to the memorial view, some Baptists hold to a view of the 'spiritual presence' of Christ in communion"

"The 'spiritual presence' understanding of the Lord’s Supper is especially common among some moderate Southern Baptists and in the Reformed Baptist tradition"

 

[Yeshua1]

Reformed Baptists consider it a sacrament:

publication of the Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America (ARBCA)

"ARBCA General Assembly, held at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in La Mirada, Calif. . . .Dr. Richard Barcellos of Heritage Baptist Church, Owensboro, Ky., spoke on 'The Lord’s Supper as Means of Grace', focusing on the benefits that communion conveys to believers – it’s not just a memorial meal. Those benefits include sanctifying grace indued to the soul, the benefits of Christ’s body and blood nourishes believers’ souls, the frequency of the supper, and its links with the past, 'do this in remembrance of Me', present 'the cup of blessing which we drink,' and future 'do this till I come,' as recorded by Christ’s directives. He noted that 'baptism is a sacrament of spiritual birth; the Lord’s Supper is a sacrament of spiritual feeding.'"

yes, as we partake of His prsense being with us while we take the element, not in them as Catholics and Lutheryns see, but with us.

 

[Jerome]

Tom Chantry, Reformed Baptist historian:

chantrynotes.wordpress.com

"I’m writing from Rockford, Illinois, where I am this week attending the General Assembly of ARBCA – the Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America....I listened to discussions about...the proper meaning of the Lord’s Supper....Don Lindblad helps us see that Christ is present in his church...through the sacraments....it reminded me of why I love the Reformed Baptist movement."

 

[Yeshua1]

Tom Chantry, Reformed Baptist historian:

chantrynotes.wordpress.com

"I’m writing from Rockford, Illinois, where I am this week attending the General Assembly of ARBCA – the Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America....I listened to discussions about...the proper meaning of the Lord’s Supper....Don Lindblad helps us see that Christ is present in his church...through the sacraments....it reminded me of why I love the Reformed Baptist movement."

We do not see God imparting any "saving Grace" by the taking of them though!

 

[Jerome]

theologian Nathan Finn explains...the 'spiritual presence' understanding of the Lord’s Supper is especially common among some moderate Southern Baptists and in the Reformed Baptist tradition"

Russell Moore reporting from the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship general assembly:

Baptist2Baptist: Observations from the CBF General Assembly

"The General Assembly served itself what many participants called the 'sacrament of communion' as they were given their choice of breads from around the world. Instead of wine or grape juice, participants were each given a single grape, which they were told to 'take and eat'."

 

[Reformed]

Correct. The Lord's Supper is observed during worship. The Holy Spirit is present during worship. Ergo, He is present during the Lord's Supper. The Holy Spirit is not present in the elements, nor does He mystically hover over them. Both consubstantiation and transubstantiation are unbiblical.

I am a Reformed Baptist , so would see the spiritual presense of jesus with us when we partake of the ordiance, but its main function is to be the outward sign of the inward work of the Holy Spirit already accomplish in us!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

edited to correct typos

 

[37818]

While historically post reformation baptists reference use it tge term "sacrament" to the two Christian observances, Those two observances: immersion and the Lord's supper, were never sacraments according to the Christian New Testament.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Do Baptists use the term "sacrament" in communion service?

Some do, but out of bad habit from their previous experience in other denominations. The term "sacrament" usually refers to a material substance or rite that confers God's grace upon the one who receives it. Communion does not confer God's grace through the means of bread and wine, although Christians are always receiving the grace of God to do any good action or meditation.

Do you believe Christ's Presence is in the sacraments?

In? No.

I believe that the practice of communion within the fellowship of believers is a touchpoint to Christians over the last 2,000 years, as well as a connection to the heavenly realm, and the real presence of Jesus, as we "recognize the body" of Christ gathered with us.

If not to the second question, then why use the term originally used by Catholics that mean otherwise?

Baptists rarely make the error, so I'm not sure what your concern is all about.

Shouldn't we show our faith by our words as standing apart from the works i.e. the sacraments of Catholicism which they believe are necessary for salvation?

You are drawing an unbiblical comparison. Real faith produces works, but works do not necessarily produce faith. Moreover, grace is not opposed to effort, it is opposed to earning. Earning is an attitude, while effort is simply obedience. If you have true faith, you will be relying on God's grace combined with your effort to produce work for the Kingdom of God.

How hard is it to hold communion without using the word "sacrament"? None at all, from what I can see.

It's easy. I've done it many times.

But... if you believe Christ's Presence is in the bread and the wine, then I reckon you'll be voting "Yes".

Who are you addressing?

And yet, I'd say it is a poor witness of our faith if Baptists believe they are "coming into His Presence" at communion because Catholics will be misled to believe that you believe as they do.

Sorry, since in Christ we "live and move and have our being," we cannot help but be in the presence of Christ.

My former Presbyterian church did that for why there were Catholic members in that church. Go figure.

Ah, you are venting at ghosts from your past... That doesn't make for a good conversation with others.

And yes, asking for the Presence of the Holy Spirit to be in the worship place is an iniquity when He is in us.

Not at all. It is completely appropriate to ask for the Spirit to make Himself known and work in our midst as the larger body of Christ. The invocation of the presence of the Triune God is all about recognizing that we are PART of the body of Christ, not simply individuals. While it is true that somehow the fullness of the Godhead lives within us as individual temples of the Holy Spirit, there is something greater that happens when we join with our sisters and brothers in Christ in unity and worship.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

I embrace all of the teachings of Jesus, but I fail to see why this is particularly relevant here.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Russell Moore reporting from the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship general assembly:

Baptist2Baptist: Observations from the CBF General Assembly

"The General Assembly served itself what many participants called the 'sacrament of communion' as they were given their choice of breads from around the world. Instead of wine or grape juice, participants were each given a single grape, which they were told to 'take and eat'."

The cited article is from 2000. Russell Moore was well-known for his malicious and dishonest reporting of the CBF meetings during this era. For instance, I followed up on his allegations back in 2002 for a CBF General Assembly here in Fort Worth.

 

[Jerome]

The cited article is from 2000. Russell Moore was well-known for his malicious and dishonest reporting of the CBF meetings during this era. For instance, I followed up on his allegations back in 2002 for a CBF General Assembly here in Fort Worth.

I'm just giving examples of the term 'sacrament' being used among some moderate Baptists, and Reformed Baptists.

What precisely are you questioning about Moore's report? Hearing 'sacrament' used, or something else unrelated to the OP?

 

[Baptist Believer]

What precisely are you questioning about Moore's report? Hearing 'sacrament' used, or something else unrelated to the OP?

I simply don't trust Moore's reporting on the CBF from that era. So much of it is demonstrably false or misleading.