Do Baptists Seek Presence of Holy Spirit in Worship?

[HopefulNChrist]

You are making many leaps in logic that you don't connect. I have experienced the manifest presence of The Spirit when I was not really seeking anything. It was not emotional. It was His manifest presence.

That is what the apostle John was warning about, brother, in 1 John 4:1 to not believe every spirit, but test them... and we do that by knowing that the Holy Ghost is in us and the spirit of the antichrist is outside of us as in the world. 1 John 4:4

There is no other way to test the spirits, but to place the Holy Spirit outside of us is to remove the line of discernment because YOU cannot test the spirits now.

My neighbor across the street was reading her Bible one day at the kitchen table when she felt what she assumed was the Holy Spirit coming over her, bringing tongues without interpretation. She went on to say that was when she was saved, because she got the Holy Ghost & tongues all at once. Then I had asked her, what were you reading that led you to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not understand what I had meant at first, but then she did as she went on to explain that she went to her preacher and had asked him what had happened since she was a believer for most of her life before that moment, and then he pointed her to something in the Book of Acts as if that was what had happened to her. Then she went on to explain how other believers in that church shared a similar experience while doing everyday thing, but she rolled her eyes in disbelief without sharing their testimony why she did that.

So a spirit came over her later on in life as a saved believer that made her change her testimony as to when she was saved and by doing so.... unwittingly add her testimony to the lie out there that one has to speak in tongues to know that you have the Holy Spirit and that you are saved.

Joyce Meyers had a similar experience too... but she took that moment not the moment when she was saved, but took that moment as a sign of God calling her into the ministry.

I do not doubt your experience, but you assumed that was the Holy Spirit. What need does the Holy Spirit has to be outside of you in the worship place when being in you is as close to the Holy Spirit you will ever get? That is the new reality in Christ under the New Covenant for why believers are not to seek the Holy Spirit like the Jews did in the Temple of God in Jerusalem, because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit now. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 and Jesus Christ is in us ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 )

Jesus said that you will know Him by Him dwelling in you ( John 14:16-17 ) as opposing how the world receives spirits by seeing it.. feeling it in the worship place or outside of them. Think medium in invoking spirits to come as an example.

So you are blurring the line of discernment and already you see nothing wrong with slain in the spirit.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Having said that, I would say that much of what is attributed to the Spirit has nothing whatsoever to do with Him. Just remember to not throw out the Baby with the bath water.

There is no baby in that bath water. By assuming that the Holy Spirit would visit the worship place when He already dwells in you, you cannot test for the spirits of the antichrist now; you are hardly throwing out the bath water, but keeping that which should be thrown out as not of the Lord at all.

 

[Reynolds]

That is what the apostle John was warning about, brother, in 1 John 4:1 to not believe every spirit, but test them... and we do that by knowing that the Holy Ghost is in us and the spirit of the antichrist is outside of us as in the world. 1 John 4:4

There is no other way to test the spirits, but to place the Holy Spirit outside of us is to remove the line of discernment because YOU cannot test the spirits now.

My neighbor across the street was reading her Bible one day at the kitchen table when she felt what she assumed was the Holy Spirit coming over her, bringing tongues without interpretation. She went on to say that was when she was saved, because she got the Holy Ghost & tongues all at once. Then I had asked her, what were you reading that led you to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not understand what I had meant at first, but then she did as she went on to explain that she went to her preacher and had asked him what had happened since she was a believer for most of her life before that moment, and then he pointed her to something in the Book of Acts as if that was what had happened to her. Then she went on to explain how other believers in that church shared a similar experience while doing everyday thing, but she rolled her eyes in disbelief without sharing their testimony why she did that.

So a spirit came over her later on in life as a saved believer that made her change her testimony as to when she was saved and by doing so.... unwittingly add her testimony to the lie out there that one has to speak in tongues to know that you have the Holy Spirit and that you are saved.

Joyce Meyers had a similar experience too... but she took that moment not the moment when she was saved, but took that moment as a sign of God calling her into the ministry.

I do not doubt your experience, but you assumed that was the Holy Spirit. What need does the Holy Spirit has to be outside of you in the worship place when being in you is as close to the Holy Spirit you will ever get? That is the new reality in Christ under the New Covenant for why believers are not to seek the Holy Spirit like the Jews did in the Temple of God in Jerusalem, because our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit now. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 and Jesus Christ is in us ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 )

Jesus said that you will know Him by Him dwelling in you ( John 14:16-17 ) as opposing how the world receives spirits by seeing it.. feeling it in the worship place or outside of them. Think medium in invoking spirits to come as an example.

So you are blurring the line of discernment and already you see nothing wrong with slain in the spirit.

Proverbs 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. 27 It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. 28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.



There is no baby in that bath water. By assuming that the Holy Spirit would visit the worship place when He already dwells in you, you cannot test for the spirits of the antichrist now; you are hardly throwing out the bath water, but keeping that which should be thrown out as not of the Lord at all.

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent. Inside us. Outside us. Everywhere.

 

[37818]

". . . if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. . . . The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: . . ." -- Romans 8:9; Romans 8:16.

". . . He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. . . ." -- 1 John 5:12.

 

[HankD]

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent. Inside us. Outside us. Everywhere.

I agree.

However Ephesians 5:18 is primarily a qualitative not quantitative verse though it is in quantitative phraseology.

IOW It has more to do with our relationship with the Spirit and not to be considered like a gas gauge - "full" or 1/2 full, 1/4 full... etc

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

 

[HopefulNChrist]

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent. Inside us. Outside us. Everywhere.

Then how do you test the spirits? You can't.

Jesus said this for a reason... to testify to one of the roles of the Holy Ghost as forever abiding.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:

Jesus pointed out how the world receives spirits by seeing it.

John 14:17...…….. but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

That is His way of saying how each believer will know Him for sure and that is by Him being in us since our salvation.

The apostle John said the same thing in 1 John 4:2 as Paul did in 2 Corinthians 13:5 as testing the spirits is the same as examining ourselves in the faith where the Spirit of Christ is. I shall switch our 1 John 4:2 with 2 Corinthians 13:5.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? *See Footnote *

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Footnote * same meaning as 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

The term "is come" meaning presently; John is not talking about the heresy of Christ had never come in the flesh, but testing the spirits as to where Jesus Christ dwells.

By removing that line of discernment in proving good and evil, you cannot test the spirits outside of you if you place the Holy Spirit outside of you also.​

 

[HopefulNChrist]

". . . if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. . . . The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: . . ." -- Romans 8:9; Romans 8:16.

". . . He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. . . ." -- 1 John 5:12.

That is the defense of our faith in Jesus Christ; Him being in us since our salvation as a testimony that God is with us.

Any spirit felt outside of us or coming over and "infilling" the saved believer later in life as a saved believer as standing apart from the calling of the gospel is NOT the Holy Spirit but seducing spirits seeking to take the spotlight off of the Son in worship to chasing after them to feel their presence again in worship for that good feeling or receiving them again, assuming them to be the real indwelling Holy Spirit when obviously they are not when He is in them still.

Once received, one cannot behave as if He was not received as promised at our salvation.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

[37818]

That is the defense of our faith in Jesus Christ; Him being in us since our salvation as a testimony that God is with us.

Any spirit felt outside of us or coming over and "infilling" the saved believer later in life as a saved believer as standing apart from the calling of the gospel is NOT the Holy Spirit but seducing spirits seeking to take the spotlight off of the Son in worship to chasing after them to feel their presence again in worship for that good feeling or receiving them again, assuming them to be the real indwelling Holy Spirit when obviously they are not when He is in them still.

Once received, one cannot behave as if He was not received as promised at our salvation.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Salvation is not in any feeling, but in God's promise. ". . . In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began. . . ." -- Titus 1:2. And the only Apostolic tradition we have received today is found solely in the Christian New Testatment.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Salvation is not in any feeling, but in God's promise. ". . . In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began. . . ." -- Titus 1:2. And the only Apostolic tradition we have received today is found solely in the Christian New Testatment.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith...… 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 1:7 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

 

[37818]

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent. Inside us. Outside us. Everywhere.

Yeah (John 4:24). But (Romans 8:9; 1 John 5:12; 2 Corinthians 13:5; Matthew 7:21-23).

 

[HopefulNChrist]

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent. Inside us. Outside us. Everywhere.

Yeah (John 4:24). But (Romans 8;9; 1 John 5:12; 2 Corinthians 13:5; Matthew 7:21-23).

Reynolds is actually preaching that it is not significant as He says as opposing the truth in those verses you are quoting.

He would have a hard time testing the spirits outside of him when he places the Holy Spirit out there with where the spirit of the antichrist is at.

 

[37818]

Reynolds is actually preaching that it is not significant as He says as opposing the truth in those verses you are quoting.

He would have a hard time testing the spirits outside of him when he places the Holy Spirit out there with where the spirit of the antichrist is at.

God is a Spirit and is Holy and is omnipresent. And the lying spirits have no authority without God's permission (compare Romans 13:1).

 

[HopefulNChrist]

God is a Spirit and is Holy and is omnipresent. And the lying spirits have no authority without God's permission (compare Romans 13:1).

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus was answering the woman at the well her question about where to worship God at; in the mountains as her people did or in Jerusalem. The answer "God is a Spirit" is meaning that God is omnipresence; not that He has no image, so that believers can worship The Father anywhere by coming only to the Son in worship.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If you agree that slain in the spirit and holy laughter is not of the Lord, then why would God allow the strong delusion to occur when focus is on the Holy Spirit in worship and looking for that visitation of that "Spirit" in the worship place?

Because they are committing works of iniquity by going around the Son in worship in coming to God the Father by; John 14:6 & John 10:1 & the standard of judgment for doing that iniquity in John 5:22-23 for when they stop honoring the Son, they are no longer honoring the Father.

That is why God is giving permission to seducing spirits to come in for believing the lie that the Holy Spirit is in the worship place to be felt as well as for the lie that they believe they can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign of tongues which never comes with interpretation and thus a sign of confusion as well for other signs of confusion like loss of self control.

The real indwelling Holy Ghost will not speak of Himself in seeking His glory but of the Son in seeking His glory so how can He do that except thru us as John 15:26-27 & John 16:13-14 confirms. That is the obedience Paul was talking about for every believer to have that mind of Christ in worship by ONLY exalting the name of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ above every other name which is done to the glory of God the Father. By honoring the Son & glorifying the Son is the ONLY way believers as led by the Spirit & scripture to do can honor and glorify the Father in worship.

That is the only way God the Father can call sinners away from their spirits and the worship of them by living that reconciled relationship with God thru the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ as the bride is to the Bridegroom as married to God the Father by.

That is the only way a church abiding in Him can keep out the practice of spirit worship from the assembly to insure sinners coming out of such practices and away from those spirits can live in repentance by.

 

[Reynolds]

Reynolds is actually preaching that it is not significant as He says as opposing the truth in those verses you are quoting.

He would have a hard time testing the spirits outside of him when he places the Holy Spirit out there with where the spirit of the antichrist is at.

It would be in the interest of truth to quote me and not add to what I say. Your words are not my words. Adding to what I say and attributing it to me makes you a liar.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

It would be in the interest of truth to quote me and not add to what I say. Your words are not my words. Adding to what I say and attributing it to me makes you a liar.

Okay.

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent. Inside us. Outside us. Everywhere.

I had replied to you quoting scripture as specifically where the Holy Ghost will dwell in post #45 in this thread for which you seem to dismiss as not as significant as the scripture says. Repeating post #45 below.

Then how do you test the spirits? You can't.

Jesus said this for a reason... to testify to one of the roles of the Holy Ghost as forever abiding.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:

Jesus pointed out how the world receives spirits by seeing it.

John 14:17...…….. but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

That is His way of saying how each believer will know Him for sure and that is by Him being in us since our salvation.

The apostle John said the same thing in 1 John 4:2 as Paul did in 2 Corinthians 13:5 as testing the spirits is the same as examining ourselves in the faith where the Spirit of Christ is. I shall switch our 1 John 4:2 with 2 Corinthians 13:5.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? *See Footnote *

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Footnote * same meaning as 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

The term "is come" meaning presently; John is not talking about the heresy of Christ had never come in the flesh, but testing the spirits as to where Jesus Christ dwells.

By removing that line of discernment in proving good and evil, you cannot test the spirits outside of you if you place the Holy Spirit outside of you also.
​

So my post # 50 is in fact in response to your post in #42.

My post # 50 below

"Reynolds is actually preaching that it is not significant as He says as opposing the truth in those verses you are quoting.

He would have a hard time testing the spirits outside of him when he places the Holy Spirit out there with where the spirit of the antichrist is at."

Your post # 42 below.

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent. Inside us. Outside us. Everywhere.

I know that because of other discussions in other threads that you & I can lose track of the discussion in this thread, but I wasn't lying if you regard by reading over the progress of our conversation in this thread.

Per the New Covenant, the Holy Spirit dwells in us and abides in us forever since our salvation. There is no scripture placing the Holy Spirit outside of us per the New Covenant in relation to our salvation in the New Testament. That would make it impossible for believers to test the spirits outside of us if you place the Holy Spirit everywhere.

The Father and the Son is not reliant on the Spirit of God being omnipresence since the Father & the Son also dwells in us.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

God with us by way of the Son in us brings a whole new meaning now, doesn't He? The Triune God in us because of the Son, testifies that we are saved.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

I agree.

However Ephesians 5:18 is primarily a qualitative not quantitative verse though it is in quantitative phraseology.

IOW It has more to do with our relationship with the Spirit and not to be considered like a gas gauge - "full" or 1/2 full, 1/4 full... etc

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

I had misread it, and therefore why I had removed my initial rating. Sorry.

In regards to the New Covenant, scripture has the Holy Spirit significantly and specifically located as dwelling in us so that we can test the spirits outside of us as the spirit of the antichrist. It is because of the New Covenant is why the Holy Spirit's Presence is no longer to be felt outside of the believers in the worship place when our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

The Person of the Holy Spirit is not the means by Whom the Father & the Son are omnipresence, because they dwell in us too.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

God is a Spirit is God being omnipresence in John 4:24 is Jesus answering the women at the well as to where to worship the Father at; neither at their mountains nor in Jerusalem at the Temple but by coming to the only way of the Son, ( John 14:6 ) they worship the Father in spirit and in truth.

To remove that line of discernment in testing the spirits is to remove the words of apostle John's words in how to test the spirits.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world...…4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

But I agree with you that the measure of the Holy Spirit is not as a gas gauge as you accept now, because our relationship with the Father & the Son is by abiding in Him and His words by walking in the light as the Son had done. So there is no little bit abiding in Him nor a lot of abiding in Him. We are either abiding in Him or not, even though He is within us always.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Carried over from another thread since it is applicable.

[Matthew 18:20 NASB] 20 "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."

Are you saying that Jesus was just pulling our leg in Matthew?

Brother @atpollard consider this truth;

When Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit, does He not defer from Himself by referring to the Person of the Holy Spirit as "He" or "Him"?

So when Jesus use the pronoun " I ", Who is He testifying of in making this promise? Himself, the Son.

So then what is Jesus talking about? You can check the Greek word from which "midst" was derived from, you may find the definition as meaning middle or in between.

HTML Bible Index - King James Version - Strongs Concordance - Frames Version

"from meta - meta 3326; middle (as an adjective or (neuter) noun):--among, X before them, between, + forth, mid(-day, -night), midst, way."

So in context:

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Jesus is referring to His future role as our only Mediator between God and man in regards to prayer; He is not testifying in being a spook among the assembly of 2 or 3 believers when praying.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The Son of God is our only access to God the Father by that throne of grace.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

This is the will of God because when Jesus gives our intercessions in searching our hearts, the Spirit's silent intercessions by knowing His mind, and His own intercessions to the Father, when the Father says "Yes" to any of those intercessions, the Son answers the prayers for why He, alone is between us so that the father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth....20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So Matthew 18:20 when read in context of Matthew 18:19-20, is about Jesus serving as our Mediator when 2 or 3 gather to pray.​

 

[1689Dave]

“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20)

 

[HopefulNChrist]

“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20)

When Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit, does He not defer from Himself by referring to the Person of the Holy Spirit as "He" or "Him"?

So when Jesus use the pronoun " I ", Who is He testifying of in making this promise? Himself, the Son.

So then what is Jesus talking about? You can check the Greek word from which "midst" was derived from, you may find the definition as meaning middle or in between.

HTML Bible Index - King James Version - Strongs Concordance - Frames Version

"from meta - meta 3326; middle (as an adjective or (neuter) noun):--among, X before them, between, + forth, mid(-day, -night), midst, way."

So in context:

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Jesus is referring to His future role as our only Mediator between God and man in regards to prayer; He is not testifying in being a spook among the assembly of 2 or 3 believers when praying.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

So Matthew 18:20 when read in context of Matthew 18:19-20, is about Jesus serving as our Mediator when 2 or 3 gather to pray.

 

[1689Dave]

When Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit, does He not defer from Himself by referring to the Person of the Holy Spirit as "He" or "Him"?

So when Jesus use the pronoun " I ", Who is He testifying of in making this promise? Himself, the Son.

So then what is Jesus talking about? You can check the Greek word from which "midst" was derived from, you may find the definition as meaning middle or in between.

HTML Bible Index - King James Version - Strongs Concordance - Frames Version

"from meta - meta 3326; middle (as an adjective or (neuter) noun):--among, X before them, between, + forth, mid(-day, -night), midst, way."

So in context:

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Jesus is referring to His future role as our only Mediator between God and man in regards to prayer; He is not testifying in being a spook among the assembly of 2 or 3 believers when praying.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

So Matthew 18:20 when read in context of Matthew 18:19-20, is about Jesus serving as our Mediator when 2 or 3 gather to pray.

So Jesus (God) isn't in our midst through the Holy Spirit (God) when we gather in his name as promised?

 

[HopefulNChrist]

So Jesus (God) isn't in our midst through the Holy Spirit (God) when we gather in his name as promised?

That is not exactly what He has promised, brother. Read post # 58 again. Jesus was referring to Himself by being in between us and God when 2 or 3 are gathered together to pray.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

There is no way He was referring to the Holy Spirit, but directly to Himself as being in between us and the Father in Heaven; not as being among the believers as being outside of them in that gathering on earth. What need is there for that when He is in each of them always?

Also the place 2 or 3 gather at is not the temple of the Holy Ghost, each of their physical bodies are. That is the new reality in Christ Jesus as abstaining from the Old Covenant where the Presence of God was located at the Temple in Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So are we representing the Old Covenant still, or the New Covenant? The Old Testament or the New Testament?