Do Baptists Seek Presence of Holy Spirit in Worship?

[1689Dave]

That is not exactly what He has promised, brother. Read post # 58 again. Jesus was referring to Himself by being in between us and God when 2 or 3 are gathered together to pray.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

There is no way He was referring to the Holy Spirit, but directly to Himself as being in between us and the Father in Heaven; not as being among the believers as being outside of them in that gathering on earth. What need is there for that when He is in each of them always?

Also the place 2 or 3 gather at is not the temple of the Holy Ghost, each of their physical bodies are. That is the new reality in Christ Jesus as abstaining from the Old Covenant where the Presence of God was located at the Temple in Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So are we representing the Old Covenant still, or the New Covenant? The Old Testament or the New Testament?

You cannot divide the Trinity. Jesus is everywhere present and makes his presence a matter of faith when two or more unite in his name.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

You cannot divide the Trinity. Jesus is everywhere present and makes his presence a matter of faith when two or more unite in his name.

There is no division when God is in us and is with us always. The problem is on your part for misapplying His words because you are placing the Holy Spirit outside of us in the worship place where the spirit of the antichrist is at in the world. By doing that, you can not test the spirits like the apostle John warned every believer about in 1 John 4:1 and how in 1 John 4:4

There is no way for you to test the spirits if you believe the Holy Spirit visits the place as the spirit of the antichrist does as well. You can't go by how you feel when a spirit comes because there are also known as seducing spirits.

Jesus specifically said that we will know the real Holy Spirit by Him dwelling in us and NOT by the way the world receives spirits as they see it and this inferring feeling them outside of them as visiting the place by a sign. Read His words and see His meaning.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 

[1689Dave]

There is no division when God is in us and is with us always. The problem is on your part for misapplying His words because you are placing the Holy Spirit outside of us in the worship place where the spirit of the antichrist is at in the world. By doing that, you can not test the spirits like the apostle John warned every believer about in 1 John 4:1 and how in 1 John 4:4

There is no way for you to test the spirits if you believe the Holy Spirit visits the place as the spirit of the antichrist does as well. You can't go by how you feel when a spirit comes because there are also known as seducing spirits.

Jesus specifically said that we will know the real Holy Spirit by Him dwelling in us and NOT by the way the world receives spirits as they see it and this inferring feeling them outside of them as visiting the place by a sign. Read His words and see His meaning.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If God is omnipresent, he is not only in us but outside of us as well.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

If God is omnipresent, he is not only in us but outside of us as well.

Omnipresent as defined as always present everywhere at all times, but the way you are applying it to mean in relation to God, then I ask you several questions;

Is God present in Satan? No. He is fully aware of him, but hardly necessitate occupying him.

Is God present in the lake of fire created for Satan and his angels? No. He is fully aware of the lake of fire that He has created.

So how are we to apply the reality of the omnipresence of God in regards to the New Covenant in order for believers NOT to believe every spirit but test them? God is in us...

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Knowing God is in us enables us to discern that spirit outside of us is not God.....

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Do you acknowledge these scripture or not? How can you test for the spirit of the antichrist in the world if you believe the Holy Spirit would bother to visit a place of worship when He is already in you as your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit?

Are you going to answer any of my questions in relations to testing the spirits by the scripture or not?

 

[1689Dave]

Omnipresent as defined as always present everywhere at all times, but the way you are applying it to mean in relation to God, then I ask you several questions;

Is God present in Satan? No. He is fully aware of him, but hardly necessitate occupying him.

Is God present in the lake of fire created for Satan and his angels? No. He is fully aware of the lake of fire that He has created.

So how are we to apply the reality of the omnipresence of God in regards to the New Covenant in order for believers NOT to believe every spirit but test them? God is in us...

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Knowing God is in us enables us to discern that spirit outside of us is not God.....

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Do you acknowledge these scripture or not? How can you test for the spirit of the antichrist in the world if you believe the Holy Spirit would bother to visit a place of worship when He is already in you as your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit?

Are you going to answer any of my questions in relations to testing the spirits by the scripture or not?

We still have the trinity in us and surrounding us when we meet in Jesus' name.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

We still have the trinity in us and surrounding us when we meet in Jesus' name.

Having God in us negates any reason for God being around us on the outside of us.

Having God in us helps us test the spirits outside of us as not of God.

 

[1689Dave]

Having God in us negates any reason for God being around us on the outside of us.

Having God in us helps us test the spirits outside of us as not of God.

Just sayin' Jesus (God) is with us when we gather in his name. And that includes the Holy Spirit, The Son, and the Father too.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Just sayin' Jesus (God) is with us when we gather in his name. And that includes the Holy Spirit, The Son, and the Father too.

But not outside of us les we ignore His warnings.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world...…… 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

If Baptists do not narrow the way back to focusing on the Son in worship in honoring the Son and thereby honoring God the Father, as glorifying the Son, Whose name is above every other name, is to glorifying God the Father as well in worship, then they are not led by the indwelling Holy Spirit to worship Him IN spirit and IN truth.

It will not be surprising if Pentecostals and Charismatics will start coming to Baptists churches to share in their movements of the "spirit" in all of its visitations, when signs and lying wonders starts manifesting in a more obvious apostate way rather than just the passive and yet still apostate way of feeling the presence of the spirit in the worship place in assuming that is the Holy Spirit..

When people start losing self control and falling backwards and doing other signs of confusion, get out of there.

 

[1689Dave]

But not outside of us les we ignore His warnings.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world...…… 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

If Baptists do not narrow the way back to focusing on the Son in worship in honoring the Son and thereby honoring God the Father, as glorifying the Son, Whose name is above every other name, is to glorifying God the Father as well in worship, then they are not led by the indwelling Holy Spirit to worship Him IN spirit and IN truth.

It will not be surprising if Pentecostals and Charismatics will start coming to Baptists churches to share in their movements of the "spirit" in all of its visitations, when signs and lying wonders starts manifesting in a more obvious apostate way rather than just the passive and yet still apostate way of feeling the presence of the spirit in the worship place in assuming that is the Holy Spirit..

When people start losing self control and falling backwards and doing other signs of confusion, get out of there.

I'm not talking about Charismatics. I'm talking about any church of two or more gathering in Jesus' name.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Se

Seducing spirits

I'm not talking about Charismatics. I'm talking about any church of two or more gathering in Jesus' name.

The point is, you are talking like a Charismatic, Pentecostal, and Catholic when they call for & thus invoke what they believe is the Holy Spirit to come into the worship place for His Presence to be felt outside of them in the worship place. The more grandstanding visitations are the ones where the "Holy Spirit" comes in making believers fall down backwards and do other things in confusion.

If you do not want that to happen in your Baptist church, you need to do what scripture and the indwelling Holy Spirit is leading you to do; and that is to put the spotlight only on the Son in worship to bear testimony of the Son to glorify the Son and He does that through us in worship.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me:

Seducing spirits wants to take the spotlight off of the Son in the worship place to mislead believers into chasing after them to seek after them to receive again for a sign. The Holy Spirit in us would never lead a believer to do that; not even for feeling "His Presence" in the worship place where the spirit of the antichrist is at.

Antichrist is defined as "instead of the Christ" as in "instead of the Son". Do discern that in what they do as opposing what the indwelling Holy Spirit does and that is still pointing believers to the son, the Bridegroom, in coming to God the Father by.

So do not be surprised when those crazy stuff starts happening; when it does, then leave, and next time, focus on the Son in worship which scripture & the real indwelling Holy Ghost is leading you to do.

 

[1689Dave]

Se

Seducing spirits

The point is, you are talking like a Charismatic, Pentecostal, and Catholic when they call for & thus invoke what they believe is the Holy Spirit to come into the worship place for His Presence to be felt outside of them in the worship place. The more grandstanding visitations are the ones where the "Holy Spirit" comes in making believers fall down backwards and do other things in confusion.

If you do not want that to happen in your Baptist church, you need to do what scripture and the indwelling Holy Spirit is leading you to do; and that is to put the spotlight only on the Son in worship to bear testimony of the Son to glorify the Son and He does that through us in worship.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me:

Seducing spirits wants to take the spotlight off of the Son in the worship place to mislead believers into chasing after them to seek after them to receive again for a sign. The Holy Spirit in us would never lead a believer to do that; not even for feeling "His Presence" in the worship place where the spirit of the antichrist is at.

Antichrist is defined as "instead of the Christ" as in "instead of the Son". Do discern that in what they do as opposing what the indwelling Holy Spirit does and that is still pointing believers to the son, the Bridegroom, in coming to God the Father by.

So do not be surprised when those crazy stuff starts happening; when it does, then leave, and next time, focus on the Son in worship which scripture & the real indwelling Holy Ghost is leading you to do.

But, Jesus is the triune God who is omnipresent. How can he not be present when two or more gather in his name?

 

[HopefulNChrist]

But, Jesus is the triune God who is omnipresent. How can he not be present when two or more gather in his name?

As per 2 Corinthians 13:5, He is always present within you. Same goes for the Holy Ghost in John 14:16-17 as your body is the temple of the holy Ghost; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20

Therefore, that which "comes" or "visits" you in the worship place is not the Triune God since He is with us always.

To testify to His coming and His visiting is then testifying to Him not being with you always until that moment. Indeed, to testify to continual visits is to deny Him as being in you always as well as denying the omnipresence of God.

So that which comes and visits you is not the omnipresence of God, now is it?

 

[1689Dave]

As per 2 Corinthians 13:5, He is always present within you. Same goes for the Holy Ghost in John 14:16-17 as your body is the temple of the holy Ghost; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20

Therefore, that which "comes" or "visits" you in the worship place is not the Triune God since He is with us always.

To testify to His coming and His visiting is then testifying to Him not being with you always until that moment. Indeed, to testify to continual visits is to deny Him as being in you always as well as denying the omnipresence of God.

So that which comes and visits you is not the omnipresence of God, now is it?

Do you communicate with God in prayer and worship and reap positive results hearing his word, over what you might experience while say, chopping wood? Or changing your motor oil?

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Do you communicate with God in prayer and worship and reap positive results hearing his word, over what you might experience while say, chopping wood? Or changing your motor oil?

It is because of other spirits in the world and sinners communing with those spirits, occult wise and idol wise, is why all invitations in coming to God the Father is by the only way of the Son and still is to prevent spirit worship from coming in to the assembly.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That is what Jesus was trying to tell the woman at the well in John 4th chapter of where to worship God the Father at; neither at her mountain nor in Jerusalem, because the time has come to worship God IN spirit & IN truth as God is not limited by a place of worship to be worshipped.

How can a believer come to God the Father anywhere in worship? By only honoring the Son in worship.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

That is why we are not to honor the Holy Spirit in worship because He is in us to lead us to testify of the Son to glorify the Son and by doing so, honor & glorify God the Father and that includes the testimonies and the hymns in the worship place too.

Only seducing spirits would take the spotlight off of the Son In worship by their visitations.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

So there is a reason why the Holy Spirit will not bother to manifest outside of us in the worship place and that is to keep the focus on the Son in the worship place and to know that the spirit of the antichrist is the only spirit that would visit to mislead believers from doing so otherwise.

 

[1689Dave]

It is because of other spirits in the world and sinners communing with those spirits, occult wise and idol wise, is why all invitations in coming to God the Father is by the only way of the Son and still is to prevent spirit worship from coming in to the assembly.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That is what Jesus was trying to tell the woman at the well in John 4th chapter of where to worship God the Father at; neither at her mountain nor in Jerusalem, because the time has come to worship God IN spirit & IN truth as God is not limited by a place of worship to be worshipped.

How can a believer come to God the Father anywhere in worship? By only honoring the Son in worship.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

That is why we are not to honor the Holy Spirit in worship because He is in us to lead us to testify of the Son to glorify the Son and by doing so, honor & glorify God the Father and that includes the testimonies and the hymns in the worship place too.

Only seducing spirits would take the spotlight off of the Son In worship by their visitations.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

So there is a reason why the Holy Spirit will not bother to manifest outside of us in the worship place and that is to keep the focus on the Son in the worship place and to know that the spirit of the antichrist is the only spirit that would visit to mislead believers from doing so otherwise.

Jesus is God. And God's name is Jesus. And he says; “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20)

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Jesus is God. And God's name is Jesus. And he says; “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20)

In context, of Matthew 18:19-20, Jesus is talking about His future role as our Mediator between us and God; He is not talking about Him appearing to be among 2 or 3 believers when they pray.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

So when 2 or 3 are gathered to pray in one accord about something specific, Jesus is serving as our Mediator between us and the Father. You cannot infer another meaning from His words in context when He is referring to Himself & not the Holy Spirit.

 

[1689Dave]

In context, of Matthew 18:19-20, Jesus is talking about His future role as our Mediator between us and God; He is not talking about Him appearing to be among 2 or 3 believers when they pray.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

So when 2 or 3 are gathered to pray in one accord about something specific, Jesus is serving as our Mediator between us and the Father. You cannot infer another meaning from His words in context when He is referring to Himself & not the Holy Spirit.

If you want to divide God up into pieces, have at it. But God is indivisible.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

If you want to divide God up into pieces, have at it. But God is indivisible.

So did God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit ALL died on the cross? No.

Jesus was only referring to Himself in His future role as the only Mediator between God and men in Matthew 18:19-20.

Jesus has testified of the father and He has testified of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was not testifying of the Holy Spirit in Matthew 18:20 when saying that " I " as in He, Himself, will be between us and the Father when it comes to prayer by 2 or 3 believers.

 

[1689Dave]

So did God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit ALL died on the cross? No.

Jesus was only referring to Himself in His future role as the only Mediator between God and men in Matthew 18:19-20.

Jesus has testified of the father and He has testified of the Holy Spirit. Jesus was not testifying of the Holy Spirit in Matthew 18:20 when saying that " I " as in He, Himself, will be between us and the Father when it comes to prayer by 2 or 3 believers.

None of the Godhead died on the cross. Christ the man died on the cross. God cannot die.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

None of the Godhead died on the cross. Christ the man died on the cross. God cannot die.

Jesus was the God that men had seen in the Old Testament before His incarnation.

Jesus Was/Is the God Men Had Seen Before His Incarnation

Therefore understand with His wisdom what He has said in Revelation.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

That is how Paul exhorted believers to obey by having only this mind of Christ in worship in how to glorify God the Father by.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.