Do Baptists Seek Presence of Holy Spirit in Worship?

[1689Dave]

Jesus was the God that men had seen in the Old Testament before His incarnation.

Jesus Was/Is the God Men Had Seen Before His Incarnation

Therefore understand with His wisdom what He has said in Revelation.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

That is how Paul exhorted believers to obey by having only this mind of Christ in worship in how to glorify God the Father by.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

“Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5)

 

[HopefulNChrist]

“Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5)

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

The hypocrisy is saying you believe He is in you always and yet He has just come into the worship place to be felt where other spirits are felt. There is no need for the Holy Spirit to "come" when He is in you always when coming to worship or leaving worship. That is the only way you can test the spirits of what is the real indwelling Holy Spirit from what is not indwelling.

 

[1689Dave]

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

The hypocrisy is saying you believe He is in you always and yet He has just come into the worship place to be felt where other spirits are felt. There is no need for the Holy Spirit to "come" when He is in you always when coming to worship or leaving worship. That is the only way you can test the spirits of what is the real indwelling Holy Spirit from what is not indwelling.

Is it hypocrisy or a lack of understanding and an excessive amount of hubris on your part?

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Is it hypocrisy or a lack of understanding and an excessive amount of hubris on your part?

It can't be when you are glossing over the specifics of His words for how you can test the spirits outside of you as not of Him.

Feel free to explain how you test the spirits as scripture taught you in 1 John 4:1-4 .

 

[1689Dave]

It can't be when you are glossing over the specifics of His words for how you can test the spirits outside of you as not of Him.

Feel free to explain how you test the spirits as scripture taught you in 1 John 4:1-4 .

Test the spirits? How does what they say align with the bible? Does what they say even come from the bible?

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Test the spirits? How does what they say align with the bible? Does what they say even come from the bible?

I had given you the scripture reference of 1 John 4:1-4 Here it is again below.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

There it is... in the Bible. So how do you read His words in how you are NOT to believe every spirit but test them?

 

[1689Dave]

I had given you the scripture reference of 1 John 4:1-4 Here it is again below.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

There it is... in the Bible. So how do you read His words in how you are NOT to believe every spirit but test them?

How do you understand them? Possibly the same way I do.......

 

[HopefulNChrist]

How do you understand them? Possibly the same way I do.......

Not if you place the Holy Spirit out there with the spirit of the antichrist, you do not. You cannot test the spirits then.

By knowing He is in us always.. there is no reason for Him to "visit" the worship place so that you CAN KNOW what that presence you are feeling outside of you in the worship place IS NOT the Holy Spirit.

 

[1689Dave]

Not if you place the Holy Spirit out there with the spirit of the antichrist, you do not. You cannot test the spirits then.

By knowing He is in us always.. there is no reason for Him to "visit" the worship place so that you CAN KNOW what that presence you are feeling outside of you in the worship place IS NOT the Holy Spirit.

So the omnipresent God cannot be distinct from evil spirits to those who know his voice?

 

[HopefulNChrist]

So the omnipresent God cannot be distinct from evil spirits to those who know his voice?

The spirits that "visits" the worship place is evidence that it can not the omnipresence of God, now is it?

He is in us always... that is as close to God as one can get in Him being omnipresence with us as being within us always.

 

[1689Dave]

The spirits that "visits" the worship place is evidence that it can not the omnipresence of God, now is it?

He is in us always... that is as close to God as one can get in Him being omnipresence with us as being within us always.

God controls even evil spirits.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

God controls even evil spirits.

And that is why in regards to the falling away from the faith, if believers believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again, or in your case, believe He is coming again into the worship place in being received that way, then God will permit the strong delusion to occur.

To prevent the strong delusion to occur, is to recognize and keep the faith that Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and The Father is in you as always present.

But if you believe the lie that the Holy Spirit can also be the spirit that "comes" into the worship place, then God will permit that strong delusion to occur for you believing that lie because you are denying the faith that He is always in you since salvation.

 

[1689Dave]

And that is why in regards to the falling away from the faith, if believers believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again, or in your case, believe He is coming again into the worship place in being received that way, then God will permit the strong delusion to occur.

To prevent the strong delusion to occur, is to recognize and keep the faith that Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and The Father is in you as always present.

But if you believe the lie that the Holy Spirit can also be the spirit that "comes" into the worship place, then God will permit that strong delusion to occur for you believing that lie because you are denying the faith that He is always in you since salvation.

But................. Jesus said.............“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20)

 

[HopefulNChrist]

But................. Jesus said.............“For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20)

But again, in context of Matthew 18:19 with your verse 20, Jesus is talking about His future role as our Mediator as being in between us and the Father; not as a spook among the believers in an assembly of 2 or 3.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

That is the correct application of His words, otherwise your constant misuse of Matthew 18:20 is denying how you can test the spirits in 1 John 4:1-4. That spirit you feel in the worship place is the spirit of the antichrist because in according to our faith in Jesus Christ, He dwells in us.

You either defend the faith in Jesus Christ or... you are in iniquity for misapplying Matthew 18:20 in saying that the Holy Spirit is in the worship place also when He is not because He dwells in us is why He is not..

 

[1689Dave]

But again, in context of Matthew 18:19 with your verse 20, Jesus is talking about His future role as our Mediator as being in between us and the Father; not as a spook among the believers in an assembly of 2 or 3.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

That is the correct application of His words, otherwise your constant misuse of Matthew 18:20 is denying how you can test the spirits in 1 John 4:1-4. That spirit you feel in the worship place is the spirit of the antichrist because in according to our faith in Jesus Christ, He dwells in us.

You either defend the faith in Jesus Christ or... you are in iniquity for misapplying Matthew 18:20 in saying that the Holy Spirit is in the worship place also when He is not because He dwells in us is why He is not..

God does not exist outside of people? “For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” (Acts 17:28)

 

[HopefulNChrist]

God does not exist outside of people? “For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” (Acts 17:28)

That is not what I had posted.

As for your verse, "For in Him we live... " right.. not outside of Him. Do apply that truth and quit denying the reality of Christ in us so that you can test the spirits you feel outside as visiting you in the worship place because that spirit outside of you visiting, that it is NOT the Holy Spirit

 

[37818]

God does not exist outside of people? “For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” (Acts 17:28)

That is one of my favorite references to the identity of God. It refers to His omnipresence. God being invisible and everywhere. ". . . have our being, . . ." as ". . . have our existence, . . ." God being the uncaused existence. The question of "God's existence" is not understanding God's identity.

 

[1689Dave]

That is not what I had posted.

As for your verse, "For in Him we live... " right.. not outside of Him. Do apply that truth and quit denying the reality of Christ in us so that you can test the spirits you feel outside as visiting you in the worship place because that spirit outside of you visiting, that it is NOT the Holy Spirit

When have I ever denied Christ in my heart? That is the reason I know he's real and believe.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

That is one of my favorite references to the identity of God. It refers to His omnipresence. God being invisible and everywhere. ". . . have our being, . . ." as ". . . have our existence, . . ." God being the uncaused existence. The question of "God's existence" is not understanding God's identity.

Do read what that verse is actually saying.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

That is the same thing as saying this:

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.....15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

That is the difference between the real indwelling Holy Spirit and how the world sees spirits visiting them in a place.

The contention is that for the Holy Spirit to be present in the worship place, He would not be visiting or coming then if He is already there in being omnipresence.

But the Holy Spirit does not need to be felt in the worship place when He is omnipresence in us since our salvation.

So that spirit which comes into the worship place to be felt is not the Holy Spirit nor the actual omnipresence of God.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

When have I ever denied Christ in my heart? That is the reason I know he's real and believe.

You are denying Him in you every time you claim the spirit that visits or manifest in the worship place is the Spirit of Christ.

Since Jesus Christ is in you always, and thus He is already in the worship place by being in you as always present, then that spirit that "visit" to make its presence known is not omnipresence and thus not God, now is it?