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Featured Who was the first Jew?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by church mouse guy, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I'll argue that acceptance is NOT universal, and is also INCORRECT.

    Why?

    Because Scripture defines "Jew" for us as a handle for 'Judean', that is, a member of one of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, or Levi. And in Scripture we see Judah marching to its own drummer before God broke it off from Israel in the days of Rehoboam.

    And Scripture NEVER says such as "a Jew from the tribe of Dan" or similar. In Luke 2:36-38 we see the prophetess Anna, referred to as "of the tribe of Asher". She is NEVER called a Jew in Scripture.

    Also, Scripture refers to "Israel and Judah" up to the coming day when God will re-unite Israel and Judah.

    For now, I'm assuming the OP asked who was the first person who could be correctly called a Jew by definition of "Jew".
     
  2. jeremiah1five

    jeremiah1five Member

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    I always held it was Eber whose father was Shem:

    Genesis 10:21 (KJV)
    21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.

    I believe the name is from which we get the word/term "Hebrew."

    EDIT: adding...

    "Jew: comes from Judah, one of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel and the tribe from which Jesus, son of Joseph hails from.

    Following the line back is where we get to Eber, and "Hebrew" which comes from his name.
     
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  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    The word "Jew" has a greater scope than those of the tribe of Judah.

    To this very day all Jews are known as "Jews" not just the descendants of the tribe of Judah.

    e.g. Today those "Jews" with the family name Levine (and variants) or Cohen (and certain variations) are "Jews" descendant of Levi or "priest (Kohen)" and are recognized as such in the synagogues.

    So how is a "Jew" discerned : Without a bevy of scripture - In my view: One who is circumcised in the flesh and keeps Torah (as a covenant with YHWH).

    This then - in my evaluation (scripturally speaking) - would make Abraham the first "Jew".

    Torah?
    Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments (mitzvah), my statutes, and my laws (torah).

    Commandments
    - mitzvah - works of HaTorah - Every Jew knows what a mitzvah is.
    Laws - Torah - The codified Law of God.

    Personally I believe Abraham possessed a written copy of the Torah - not yet codified to include those mitzvouth of the Nation of Israel but he knew about the circumcision of the flesh, animal sacrifice, tithe, etc....

    As others have said - Not a hill to die on :)
     
  4. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    The name derives from the largest of the two tribes left after the Northern 10 tribes were conquered and assimilated into Assyria

    JU DAH,
     
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  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    So what?
     
  6. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    The names was not used before , They were Israelite
     
  7. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Like I said the scope of the word always included those of other tribes to this very day.
     
  8. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Judah by population was all there was left, Benjamin was small so if one was of the 10 tribes they were probably of Judah, therefore later Jews.
     
  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Forget it.
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    No matter who says otherwise, the Jews consist only of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, & Levi. Nowhere does Scripture say "a Jew from the tribe of Dan", etc.

    Luke 2;36 does not call the prophetess Anna a Jew; it mentions she was of the tribe of Asher. The modern reference of all Israelis as Jews is simply incorrect. Scripture does not call any member of any other tribe a Jew.

    The separation of judah from the rest of israel began in 1 Samuel 11:8 when Saul took a census of his soldiers. it was completely accomplished when God caused all the tribes but judah to reject Rehoboam as their king. then, Jeroboam, king of those other tribes, kicked out the levites as priests, so the Levites migrated to the land of Judah & joined them. And the tribe of Benjamin remained loyal to Rehoboam as well, and, while they retained their tribal identity, they became counted as Jews. (While Jesus was humanly descended from Judah, Paul was a Benjaminite.)

    Thus, the first Jew was...JUDAH!
     
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  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    What about the Gospel of John which calls anyone including Scribes Pharisees and Sadducees "Jews"?
     
  12. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Or the synagogues of the dispersion, always referred to as Jews.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Ethnically I believe Jacob was the first Jew. I suppose this would be true spirituality as well (spiritual descendants of Abraham through Promise).
     
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Duhh-h...They WERE Jews! Jewish officials, that is!
     
  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Well, their members WERE Jews.
     
  16. GenevanBaptist

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    When watching a small part of a program on TV, I saw some pictures of graffiti on homes of Jews during WWII spelling out "Ju".

    Guess they couldn't spell?
    Or were they spelling it the way they knew it WAS spelled?

    I don't remember where the pictures were from. Obviously somewhere where English was spoken.

    I do know the scriptures point out obviously that the term 'Jew' did not arrive on the scene until after the divided kingdom.

    Jews in the southern kingdom, and Samaritans in the northern kingdom.

    It matters not today, for the northerners were scattered and 'lost', while a few of the southerners ran back to Jerusalem to people the area alongside the 'replaced' northerners.

    It gets discouraging from there, until Christ came and dissolved the ol' partition wall.
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    During the divided kingdom, Israel was the Northern Kingdom with its capital in Samaria which fell to the neo-Assyrians in 722….ish. Israel was dispersed among other lands conquered by Assyria. Some were left, but the Assyrians left others to intermarry. This is how Assyria controlled those they conquered. They basically shuffled the deck of people groups and the kingdom of Israel ceased to exist.

    The Jews of Judah (the Southern Kingdom) was conquered by the neo-Babylonian Empire. The prominent Jews (scholars, priests, leaders, professionals, skilled workers, etc.) were taken into captivity or exile and considered themselves the bene gola or the “children of the exiles”. The am ha'aretz, or the “people of the land” (the “common” folks…like me if I were Jewish) were left in the land.

    This is important because during the Babylonian exile there existed two very distinct Jewish people groups – the Jews who were taken into captivity and the Jews who remained in Judah and they would develop specific and nuanced worldviews (which will come more into play, with the Samaritans, in and leading up to the Maccabean era.

    But the word Jew refers to the nation of Israel – first to Judah but more broadly to the entire nation. Spiritually it refers to a spiritual Israel, the inheritors of the Promise (or the spiritual children of Abraham through his Seed).
     
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  18. GenevanBaptist

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    Yes. Now it does. But biblically it doesn't.
    There is a ''teaching" now, that wasn't a teaching in Bible history. There was a difference - you could be an Israelite, and NOT be a Jew, but you couldn't be a Jew, and NOT be an Israelite.

    Up until a bit later anyhow...

    Later on, ANYONE could be a Jew...

    But Israelites, of the 10 other tribes, are no longer.

    But hey! Jesus made us all ONE people through his cross!!

    Praise God!
     
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  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think it depends on context. Except for Paul's explanation of what it is to be a Jew spiritually, the Bible typically uses the word Jew to refer to an Israelite. Peter tempered his acoins to suit the Jews, the Jews crucified Christ, Nathaniel was an Israelite without guile, salvation came first to the Jew.....these use "Jew" to refer to the descendants of Abraham through Jacob (Israel) - not solely the Tribe of Judah or the Kingdom of Judah. And then, of course, we have the spiritual Jew. Both are used in the New Testament (none in the Old Testament).

    Today the word "Jew" usually refers to nationally or race. In terms of religion (to be "Jewish") it refers to a post Temple (after 70 AD) religion based on Hebrew philosophies.
     
  20. GenevanBaptist

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    You have stated exactly what I said, in your NT references.
    Thanks for confirming.
     
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