Featured Milk of the word of God.

The author is answering their hypothetical question. He says that if possible for a person to fall away after being made a partake of the Holy Spirit, it would be impossible to renew them to repentence again.

I believe the author is saying you can't lose your salvation, because it would be impossible to bring such a person to repentence.

If you believe he is saying a person can lose their salvation, then you must accept the rest of the passage, which says such a person could never regain their salvation once lost.

 

It does not say IF POSSIBLE, it says plainly it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who have been enlightened, and tasted heavenly gifts, who shared in the Holy Spirit, to be restored again if they fall away. There are no hypotheticals in scripture but warnings to what can happen .

Obviously.

 

The point is that the writer of Hebrews is answering a hypothetical question. After making the point concerning the impossibility of being renewed to repentence again, he states that he is convinced of better things for them. He says, "the things that accompany salvation", if my memory holds. One of the things he mentions as accompanying salvation is perseverence.

 

Everyone wants to be a teacher. The plain language of the text is obvious. For me there is no more to say about....to each their own. My own, is what the Word clearly says.

 

Hebrews 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

The passage IMO is speaking of Israel (the Book to Hebrews right?). who as a nation partook of the Holy Spirit (wrote inspired books of the Bible) tasted of the good things to come, etc to be renewed to repentance because to do so they would in effect be to recrucify Christ ...Which (as an historical past tense reality) God might permit - when and if He lifts the veil from their eyes (as a past tense realization).

 

Christ died for all. He called people of the Gentiles too, but yes first to the Jew then the Greek and then to the Roman. The point is all who are restored must remain humble ever holding on to God's hand. Humility is what will keep us from falling away. But Hebrews 6:4-6 is for sure a WARNING, that if one would choose to let go of heaven for some reason he will not be permitted to be restored again. You are like the angels at that point who knew of those things of God and chose KNOWINGLY to transgress.

Deliverance from False Prophets 2Peter 2:

1Now there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies that even deny the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow in their depravity, and because of them the way of truth will be defamed. 3In their greed, these false teachers will exploit you with tales they have concocted. The longstanding verdict against them remains in force, and their destruction does not sleep.

4For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell, delivering them in chains to be held in gloomy darknessa until their judgment; 5if He did not spare the ancient world when He brought the flood on its ungodly people, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, among the eight; 6if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction,b reducing them to ashes as an example of what is coming on the ungodly;c 7and if He rescued Lot, a righteous man distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.

10Such punishment is specially reserved for those who indulge the corrupt desires of the flesh and despise authority. Bold and self-willed, these men are unafraid to slander angelic majesties. 11Yet not even angels, though greater in strength and power, dare to bring such slanderous charges against them before the Lord.

12These men are like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be captured and destroyed. They blaspheme in matters they do not understand, and like such creatures, they too will be destroyed. 13The harm they will suffer is the wages of their wickedness.

They consider it a pleasure to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deception as they feast with you. 14Their eyes are full of adultery; their desire for sin is never satisfied; they seduce the unstable. They are accursed children with hearts trained in greed.

15They have left THE STRAIGHT WAY and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor,d who loved the wages of wickedness. 16But he was rebuked for his transgression by a donkey, otherwise without speech, that spoke with a man’s voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.

17These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18With lofty but empty words, they appeal to the sensual passions of the flesh and entice those who are just escaping from others who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves to corruption. For a man is a slave to whatever has overcome him.

20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through their knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,e only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”f and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”

15They have left THE STRAIGHT WAY and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor,d who loved the wages of wickedness.
TO LEAVE THE STRAIGHT WAY INDICATES ONCE BEING ON A STRAIGHT WAY. What is the straight way?

Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many
there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

St. Peter tells, too the verdict of falling away. Hebrews supports Peter and Peter Hebrews . I prefer Peter supports Paul...in MHO I believe St. Paul wrote Hebrews.

 

Well, the text seems clear to me. We just disagree.

Do you believe that once a person loses their salvation they can never get it back?

I see now you have already answered.

Thanks for the conversation. Peace to you.

 

How can it be clear to both holding opposing views!?

 

People often have opposing views of what scripture is teaching. I see Hehrews 6 as addressing a hypothetical question. He sees it literally.

 

Perhaps your interpretation of scripture is in vain or is incorrect if you attempt to make one passage contradict other more clear passages.

 

Understood.

 

What's your view HankD?

 

What did I contradict? And what does Hebrews 6:4-6 say to you?

 

See post #25.

 

Was what happened to Judas a hypothetical?
Rev.3:11
11I am coming soon. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.
Who took Judas's crown? He first had to loose it of course. Did he exhibit spiritual gifts before he lost it? Hebrews 6 is about ones restoration . Restoration comes with spiritual gifts.

 

I try to approach scripture with an open mind. The more I learn the more I realize how little I know and how little time there is to work it out.

Each passage/letter/book must be interpreted in the context that it was written. In Hebrews, the author is clearly answering questions that had been presented to him.

The letter was probably written at a time (70-80 AD or so) when Christianity was being seen more and more by the Roman Empire as a distinct and separate religion from Jewish religion.

The Jewish religion was recognized by the Roman Empire and therefore allowed. Christianity was no longer seen as a sect within Judism and was being persecuted.

The author is warning these Christian's not to reject Christianity by seeking the safety of returning to Judism to avoid persecution.

Thus, he repeated tells them how much better Jesus is. He is a better sacrsfice, a better High Priest and so on.

I am always open to being convinced that I am mistaken about a passage.

 

This sounds like a very good analysis and popular at that.

I like to think of the epistle/letter as also having been written primarily to the church in Jerusalem some of whom actually saw Jesus in the days of His flesh.

Not only persecution but also doubt and yes even boredom wondering just who was this Jesus and is He really coming back.

So going back to Judaism with the temple still standing and doing well was very appealing with all the feasts, ritual, good works (mitvouth) etc.

Why not go back, what could it hurt?

 

I think one significant aspect of the "falling away" in Hebrews is the connection to persecution. We see these passages with modern eyes...western Christianity eyes.

We see people that used to go to our church and they quit, or we see them entangled in some sin and say they have fallen away, lost their salvation.

It is very different from the first century Christians who faced periods of intense persecution, and the 'falling away" likely involved saving their own lives or the lives of family members.

The writer of Hebrews is telling these folks that they must stand firm, even facing death.

 

Understood but from a church prospective it was like Peter after the crucifixion and he was hiding with the others :

"I'm going fishing!" "we are going with you".

Jesus had promised to return, now 20 years or so later He's nowhere to be found.

Why not go back to business as usual, what could it hurt? (their words not mine).

 

I understand what your saying. Peter went back to what he knew. Fishing. Probably a few weeks, not years though, after the crucifixion and before the ascension.