Christus Victor

"As the term Christus Victor indicates, the idea of “ransom” should not be seen in terms (as Anselm did) of a business transaction, but more of a rescue or liberation of humanity from the slavery of sin. Unlike the Satisfaction or Penal-substitution views of the atonement rooted in the idea of Christ paying the penalty of sin to satisfy the demands of justice, the Christus Victor view is rooted in the incarnation and how Christ entered into human misery and wickedness and thus redeemed it. Irenaeuscalled this "Recapitulation" (re-creation). "

As C.S. Lewis (who held a Christus Victor view) wrote "Aslan is not a tame lion" - God does not submit to human expectations.

 

Yes. All are based in truth. But the thing is each contradicts the other. One cannot hold to Penal Substitution Theory as a whole and Christus Victor at the same time...without being extraordinarily inconsistent - but one can see elements of Scripture in all of the theories (because what differs is the reasoning, not the Scriptures).

 

No need to apologize. Many probably don't.

I find it inconsistent to believe that God had to punish sin to satisfy divine justice so that He could (or as the process of) forgive man along with the belief that God could forgive man without satisfying the demands of justice by entering into humanity itself and gaining victory over the powers of sin and death.

I also find it inconsistent to believe that Christ suffered under the curse so that we would not suffer its consequences while also believing that Christ suffered under the curse so that its consequences become benign as we are saved through them.

It's a bit inconsistent also to believe that divine justice demands sin be punished because it violates the law while also believing God forgives without punishing sin because it is a personal affront to God rather than to the law.

So while many may very well reconcile these competing ideas, I simply can't.

That said, I am not the sharpest fool in the shed. So take my inability for what it's worth.

 

I'm leaving the conversation to you guys.

I just wanted to post a definition of Christus Victor to help contrast with another thread.

Peace out....dudes.

 

I agree you can't. I'm not explaining my view but offering a distinction between the two here.

Some (like Weaver) take a Christus Victor position void of the Blood (which is wrong). But there is a difference between Atonement views.

And just when I think I'm out they keep pulling me back in

 

The term Christus Victor indicates the idea of “ransom” should not be seen in terms of a business transaction, but more of a rescue or liberation of humanity from the slavery of sin. Rather than being rooted in the idea of Christ paying the penalty of sin to satisfy the demands of justice, the Christus Victor view is rooted in the incarnation and how Christ entered into human misery and wickedness and thus redeemed it.

I suppose a better definition may be provided by people holding the theory. If you like antiquity then read Irenaeus. If you prefer more contemporary explanations study Anabaptist theology or Mennonite teachings of the Atonement (many are more liberal as they react to Penal Substitution Theory, but you can still get the gist of it).

But - you asked and I did my best to provide. The rest is up to y'all. I am only interested in defending my belief on this topic - so while your dogs are hunting mine are sunning in the back yard (I don't have a dog in this hunt...except an appreciation of history). So I'll keep ole HighBall at home.

 

You asked me for a definition of Christus Victor.

I hereby deed the thread to you. It's yours now.

 

It's your thread .

Did you watch my Jerry Clower video? That's worth all the weariness.

 

I don't have to get the last word......

 

They made my eel role with a big piece of eel hanging out. The reason I get eel roles is because they taste good, are always cooked, and I can pretend they are something else. I've never even seen an eel.....until now.

I'm stuck in a 4 cylinder mini-van-thing while my truck is in the shop, and now lunch is ruined.

Happy Monday.