This same Jesus: Acts 1:11

[kyredneck]

some don't.

Cute. So you're gonna cherry pick a reference to the altar out of all the typology within Hebrews to be a literal physical 'altar' that some denominations have in their services. I bet if you searched hard enough you could probably even find some literal physical 'thrones'.

 

[asterisktom]

It's not difficult. Christ will return "in like manner" to the way He left. Did anyone see Him leave? Yes, the apostles did. '....While they watched...' (v.9). Therefore people will see Him return. End of story.

You guys never finish the passage.

"And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10And while they were gazing into heaven..."

He did return in like manner.

To me, the greater issue is not whether He was seen or not in AD 70 (there are accounts from Josephus that could be construed either way) but that so many Christians dance around all of the "this generation" pronouncements of Christ.

This is why many enemies of Christianity ridicule it. They understand, better than many Christians do, the veracity of Jesus is impugned by His NOT returning within that as He had promised.

 

[HankD]

Cute. So you're gonna cherry pick a reference to the altar out of all the typology within Hebrews to be a literal physical 'altar' that some denominations have in their services. I bet if you searched hard enough you could probably even find some literal physical 'thrones'.

No that was not my intent. My intent was to show that Jesus promised the disciples to eat, drink and sit on thrones all of which require a body - asterisktom doesn't believe we will have material bodies in he resurrection.

 

[37818]

You guys never finish the passage.

"And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10And while they were gazing into heaven..."

He did return in like manner.

To me, the greater issue is not whether He was seen or not in AD 70 (there are accounts from Josephus that could be construed either way) but that so many Christians dance around all of the "this generation" pronouncements of Christ.

This is why many enemies of Christianity ridicule it. They understand, better than many Christians do, the veracity of Jesus is impugned by His NOT returning within that as He had promised.

Ah, Jesus promised return is yet future. And believers will be raptured and that physical event has not yet happened. [My view point is premillennial post tribulational, Matthew 24:29-31.]

 

[kyredneck]

Jesus promised the disciples to eat, drink and sit on thrones all of which require a body

Yes, Jesus gave the apostles AUTHORITY:

19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Mt 16

18 Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Mt 18

But unlike you I recognize the 'euphemism' that's intended with 'the keys of the kingdom' and the synonymy with 'judging on thrones'.

You think that Christ gave the apostles literal physical keys? That open literal physical doors in a literal physical kingdom?

 

[HankD]

Yes, Jesus gave the apostles AUTHORITY:

19 I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Mt 16

18 Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Mt 18

But unlike you I recognize the 'euphemism' that's intended with 'the keys of the kingdom' and the synonymy with 'judging on thrones'.

You think that Christ gave the apostles literal physical keys? That open literal physical doors in a literal physical kingdom?

It's possible.

But beyond that Jesus often used mixed metaphors and literals.

We are expected to bear our cross (metaphor) though Jesus bore a literal cross.

Just because he uses a metaphor here and a literal there is not the real question. One does not guarantee the other.

Which use in each case makes the most sense is the question - and even at that the most sense may not be the answer.

So in many cases It's a matter of choice.

I believe God (the Logos) has committed Himself to a material eternal body along with His brethren (who will be like Him) and that He yet awaits to return in that material body to rule and reign 1000 literal years.

I think we agree on the highest important issues - the shedding of Jesus literal blood... His literal death on a literal cross, a literal resurrection from a literal grave ...

And I am sure I haven't got all the details correct and in the right order that's why I hold those detail explanations loosely.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You guys never finish the passage.

"And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10And while they were gazing into heaven..."

And? Just look at the sequence. The Lord Jesus is before them, in a body that is real and can be touched-- 'flesh and bones' (Luke 24:39). Then, 'as they watched' (NKJV) or 'before their very eyes' (NIV) He is taken up and they can see Him until 'a cloud received Him out of their sight.' But the Apostles were so transfixed by what they have seen that 'they stood looking steadfastly towards heaven,' no doubt at the spot where they last saw Him, and the 'men in white' have to jolt them out of their reverie to tell them, 'This same Jesus, who was taken from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.' So the Apostles 'saw Him go into heaven' until the point where the cloud closed over Him.

'In like manner....' It was not an invisible ascension; therefore it will not be an invisible return. He left in a material body; He will return in a material body. People saw Him rise towards heaven; people will see Him descend from heaven. Clouds came over to obscure the latter part of His ascent; clouds will part to reveal the latter part of His descent. It's very, very simple.

 

[Yeshua1]

There were so many issues that have to day with Acts 1:11 I thought it was best to start a new thread with that title. Here is Acts 1:4-11:

4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me;

5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.

8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,

11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

For this first post I just want to point out that the phrase "in like manner". How is this meant? I believe it is quite easy to pour our own meaning into this. Some say that it means He will come visibly. But that is not necessarily the point of comparison.

Is the "like manner" the same as in, say, Zech. 14?
Do mountains split at His coming and leaving?
Is the like manner the fact that "all eyes will see Him"? If so, why did only a handful see Him leave?

More to come later. (I have to wash some dishes before my wife gets home!)

All upon the earth shall see Him, as His coming will be with the angels and departed saints, and the sky shall be torn in half, so will be a physical and literal coming!