Serious about Christmas

Christmas is not a Christian festival but a pagan festival with a Christian veneer. Chrfistians should not be involved in it. Who celebrates Chrismas? All the world,
If we can keep Jesus as a baby, the world is happy.

 

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever [Hebrews 13:8].

 

Christ says in John 15:15..."ALL THINGS I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you." He was making known to the church His covenant instructions (words, sayings, statutes, judgments. precepts ,commandments) in the kingdom of heaven. We see the likeness in Gen 18:17 ...Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do:" It is also repeated in Eph 3:10..."might be known BY THE CHURCH the manifold wisdom of God." Christ was extremely zealous to accomplish making known to the church the will of the Father, therefore it was necessary that Christ declare ALL His covenant ordinances to His people because as it is written in Eph 2:10 For WE (His body, the church) are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works (His covenant teachings), which God hath before ordained that WE should walk in them." (Jn 14:15)

As an example, Christ clearly made known his two ordinances of baptism and the Lord's supper. I must then ask, did Christ, after saying he had made known ALL THINGS, forget to tell us about xmas? In John 14:15: Christ told the church, "If ye love me, keep my commandments (covenant). Was xmas practiced during the time of Christ?. There is no evidence that effect. If Christ taught it, then it is a covenant commandment and not optional. If He taught it then the church at Jerusalem failed in keep His covenant instructions. Either that, or His people to whom He is giving instructions, were not taught to observe xmas, and therefore its observance cannot be based on scripture.

How can we teach our children Christ is "the way, the TRUTH, and the life" then have to tell them that xmas (spellcheck keeps trying to make me capitalize it and I will not place Christ's name on something that to which He has no part) was a fairy tale/ lie. We know from the scriptures that the wise men and shepherds did not appear to the Child at the same time nor in the same place but then people want to stick them together in the manger scene, We know that the wise men gave gifts to Christ as their Lord !!. They knew that He was the foretold Messiah. Then what is the scriptural basis for giving gifts to one another this time of year.. Bring you gifts to the house of God and offer them to Him to whom it rightly belongs.. But many who practice xmas will not darken the door of the local assembly yet want to say He is their God.

Why do my Baptist people want to rob Christ of His glory by sticking the traditions of men with Him? Santa Claus, xmas trees, and so forth, none of which have basis is scripture. Where are my Baptist brethren who say, "Give me a thus sayeth the Lord."?

 

Santa (or rerarrange his name and you get Satan) can do things that only God can do. Like know what very child can do and the gifts they all want.
Santa is also a lie. If you tell a chld about Santa you are telli are telling the a lie, then how can they believe you when you tell them the truth.

 

Even the name is blasphemous. A mass for Christ. Shows the origin of it.

 

The question is, does the original intention behind a practice or custom permanently fix morality to thay custom. I would argue no.

 

Bro. Kurecki, I may not accurately understand your post so if my reply is not on point, please let me know. I ask you, what was the original intent of xmas seeing there is no basis in scripture that Christ gave it in his covenant teachings? Christ's zealousness to return the people to the original understanding and practice of the scriptures is demonstrated in his cleansing of the temple. Israel had become as the nations in their defilement of the teachings of God an in essence had become as Babylon. It showed the importance of Christ making sure to tell his people ALL things of the new covenant. All the defiled teachings of self-righteousness of the Pharisees, Saducees, scribes and lawyers had defiled the name of God. This point is repeated over and over in the old testament by the prophets sent to Israel to turn them from their sins in turning from the original teaching to the gods of the nations. The knowledge of the ONLY TRUE GOD (Jn 17:3) had to be manifest/revealed to his people (Eph 3:10) because they were ordained to walk in THAT light (Eph 2:10) of the will of the Father given by Christ. That is reason we are not to add to nor take away from scripture because in adding the traditions of men and removing the revelation of the Holy Spirit we defile the name of God. The word/covenant of God is as applicable today and it was when it was given. I will use the example that they did not have automobiles during that time, but the same judgments, statues, precepts and commandments, can be used to resolve the issues of a auto accident now as it could resolve the dividing of property back then. As Bro. Alcott points out, Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, and today and forever. (Heb 13:8)

 

Bro. Mouse, I am not disputing whether there was a man named Nicolas who did what historically is said to have done. As a Baptist, I have a problem making someone a saint based on catholic parameters. Paul addresses the church at Colosse by saying, "To the SAINTS and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse." (Col 1:2) Do you think those being addressed had all done two miracles as the catholics require for their so-called sainthood? The same verse answers the question. The saints and FAITHFUL brethren IN CHRIST are not two separate people being addressed. They are one and the same. If you truly are faithful AND IN CHRIST, you are a saint.

The article on Creation.com appears to be a page out of the catholic playbook. A little truth mixed with the lie. The website did re-direct me to a YouTube video by Jonathan Cahn (of whom I am not a big fan) that, from historical evidence, seems to be a much more accurate date concerning the date of the birth of Christ. Thank you for the information. In closing, since it appears you observe xmas, why are you not outraged by the obvious commercial defilement in your two posts of your so called holy day, or is this a light thing to you? I as these thing in love and IN CHRIST in his body.

 

Question, is there something inherently sinful with giving gifts to people on a specific day of the year?

Is there something inherently sinful about having a tree in your house? (may I remind you that most houses are made out of cut wooden studs)

Is there something inherently sinful about remembering and thinking about Christ's birth on any day of the year?

Is there something inherently sinful about December 25th?

You mention the Pharisees and their self-righteousness, in that they had exalted their tradition over the scripture.
Do you realize that the feast of lights/ Hannakuh was not commanded in the scriptures, yet Jesus himself on the Gospel of John observed this feast? This example alone refutes your idea that we can only do things that are explicitly stated in the scriptures. Now I will be the first to admit, that if any tradition contradicts the scriptures, then it is wrong. But certain Christmas traditions do not violate the scriptures.

If you are going to say that the above customs I mentioned are inherently wrong, then I would ask you a question, Are you also opposed to wedding customs? I believe most of our modern wedding customs stem from Paganism, you can do your own research on this and find out this information.

Again, I think this comes down to, does culture taking certain things and using them for idolatry, mean all those practices themselves are idolatry.

I will give some examples, if a cult was formed tomorrow and one of their rituals was drinking coffee while worshipping the sun on the first day of every month, would that now mean for the rest of history that drinking coffee on the first day of every month is inherently pagan and sinful? Does this mean that if I want to start a tradition with one of my friends that we get together and drink coffee on the first day of the month that now we are both in idol worship?

If tomorrow a cult formed and everyone of them painted their house red because they believed evil spirits would come into their house if they didn't, does that now mean it is sinful for all of humanity to now paint their houses red?

There are many things and customs in this world that are innocent in and of themselves but can be used in idolatry. There is nothing sinful in itself about putting stones or rocks in your backyard, but if you take those same stones and worship them, then you are now sinning. But just because your neighbor worships the stones in his backyard, does not mean you having stones in your backyard is now idolatry and sin.

The burden of proof is on you to show from the scriptures specifically which Christmas practices are INHERENTLY sinful. This whole guilt by association with idolatry argument is severely lacking.

 

I would just like to qualify that I am against the whole lying to your kids and teaching them to believe in Santa, lying is condemned in the scriptures, and I believe it is blasphemous to teach your kids that false character named Santa is omniscient. that is crossing the line.

However I see nothing wrong with setting up and decorating a tree, giving gifts, drinking hot chocolate, getting together with family, singing songs about Jesus Christ's birth, etc.

 

The problem of your examples are that your try to separate them from the purpose they are used for as a whole. You seem to have forgotten that the examples you use are in this discussion tied together (except Hannakuh which I will address) to achieve a religious end. This topic is related specifically to xmas and must be kept in that context in order to follow a logical conclusion.

Giving in and of itself is not the issue but your tying of it to a supposed holy day that you seek to practice is.
The question of giving gifts is not a general question but related specifically to the practice and supposed justification in the practice of xmas. I will repeat for your benefit that the wise men brought gifts to their Lord and Savior. They recognized Him for who he was, the foretold Messiah. Are you or any of the people you give gifts to the Messiah? The point and purpose is that we are to bring our offerings to the Lord, not one another. You cannot build according to the pattern given in the scriptures and justify your position unless you qualify as the Messiah. Sorry, you ain't Him. My point also is you can't slap the name of Jesus on whatever you want and say it is OK. It's kind of like people who think they see Jesus's face in a cheese sandwich. Again, it just ain't Him. Revelation 11:10 says "And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them and make merry and SEND GIFTS TNE ANOTHER because these two prophets tormented them that dwell on the earth.." Sound familiar.

I actually have a small decorative tree in my house but I do not put lights on it and tie it to any supposed religious celebration like you do. I do not see the relevance of your "studs in the wall" reasoning. In your case, you use the tree to try to accomplish your intended purpose and tie it in with Christmas. I must ask, do you pull the studs out of your house and decorate them? You do not. Therefore your point of studs in the wall become irrelevant and irrational.

Remembering the birth of Christ is certainly not sinful in itself but at least try to get the date right. Again, your ultimate intent in this topic is to justify your position. To take it out of context does not follow the discussion.

December 25 th becomes a problem when you use it as a leg to try to tie it to and justify your erroneous doctrinal position. Correct date please.

Concerning Hannakuh, did Christ observed the other feasts in the bible and including the to command in the old covenant to be circumcised? Absolutely. Did he assemble in Jerusalem with His brethren at the assigned times? Absolutely. Did he take ALL of them out of the way in his fulfilling of the law? Absolutely. They ALL pointed in types and shadows to what Christ would accomplish and were no longer necessary to practice. Your example of Hannakuh becomes pointless.

If you and your friends purpose drinking coffee is to accomplish the same purpose as the pagan religious intent, then yes it is sinful. In xmas, you ARE taking pagans traditions and trying to accomplish a scriptural purpose. You are NOT observing xmas without a religious intent or purpose therefore your example fails. That house will not stand.

My wife and I were covenantly married by an ordained Baptist pastor. I am not sure about you.

In the end, the use of your red house example as well as well as the rest of your examples must be kept in context of the end purpose which, in your case, is to try to justify a practice as scriptural in origin when it is clearly otherwise.

The Father says in Jer 2:32, "Can a maid forget her ornaments or a bride her attire? Yet my people have forgotten Me days without number." They had forgotten Him in the form of His covenant work. Christ in giving the ordinance of the Lord's supper to his disciples said in I Cor 11:24-25..".this do in remembrance of Me." This is a covenant command and is given exclusively to the body of Christ to keep as is whole His covenant. Christ, in giving of this ordinance, is found in the prophet Jeremiah in 11:20 ...Hear ye the words of this covenant AND DO THEM. We then must ask is xmas a covenant work or command? If it is part of the words of the covenant, we dare not fail. I must ask you, how do you get the work of Christ/His covenant out of a xmas tree? The practice of xmas is observed without regard to the covenant, Everyone that wants to think they are doing a "good work", even a Hindu I know, observes and wishes merry xmas.. How do you get Christ out of santa clause? What do any of your traditions of xmas do to point to the work of Christ? The children of Israel were rebuked because, as were the Jews during the time of Christ, they said they followed the Lord when they were actually following Belial. Deu 13:13, I Sam 2:12, Mt 7:21-23, Jn 8:34-54.

I gladly say that whatever I say, it is in unity with and by the authority of Monarch Baptist Church.