Featured Do our systems of thought teach that Jesus is really the One True God?

You also have "this is My Son, in Whom I am well pleased".

I think that it goes back to 2 Corinthians 5:19. Christ is our Advocate and Mediator with the Father. It is in Him that the world is reconciled to God. God became man. And this "God-man" is our Representative.

If it helps, pastor Bob, I do not deny the Persons of the Trinity. But I do deny that each or any Person of the Trinity is less than the fullness of God. It is not that all Three, combined, equal One true God. Jesus is the One True God. So are the Father and Spirit. But we can only know God through Jesus as it is in Him God has reveled Himself to man and reconciled the world to Himself.

 

I prefer to think of it as different "roles". I am not sure that I can agree that there are certain aspects of their nature that are manifested differently, but this could very well be a misunderstanding on my part of your meaning.

I do not believe there is any ontological difference in the nature of God between the Father and Son. I do not believe that the Word set aside any part of the divine nature, but rather set aside that glory. That said, this glory was Christ's to set aside. And He was once again glorified.

To illustrate (knowing there is always weaknesses in illustrations so please don't be too harsh...I'm just trying to explain): I can turn down the volume of my favorite song to accommodate my wife (we don't share the same taste in music) without changing the song.

I believe we see the fullness of God in Christ. AND I believe we cannot know about God except through Him. This is why I consider Penal Substitution Theory humanistic philosophy rather than Christian thought. I believe the method finds its basis in a humanistic theory of justice assumed as divine justice and imposed upon Christ. I believe any theology has to start with Christ as God's full revelation of Himself.

 

You didn't. That is where we may disagree. I am claiming that (not implying you do).

 

This is very important- more than should be noted but has to be noted. The righteousness is Gods, the judgment is Gods. But judgment it self has been given to Christ. And we call God as Father, who judges all men impartially (1 Peter).

 

I agree (as evidenced by the sweat drops of blood in the garden).

My only objection here is that it appears (probably by my own understanding) that what is often presented is God having to satisfy the demands of his justice by the Father pouring his wrath upon the Son (while affirming that this is essentially God taking the punishment upon himself). The problem here is that it takes a standpoint of the Father (a standpoint from which man has no basis to argue). Scripture, in fact, does not take this stance in terms of the Atonement (the closest we come to is God laying our iniquities upon Him and making Him "sin").

From my experience (perhaps not here) there is sometimes a tendency to think in terms of the Father reconciling the world to Himself through Christ. The thinking is simply wrong. (I'm not suggesting these are your beliefs, but trying to explain how I understand what was presented here and why I am so cautious).

 

I understand what you are saying, Y1. What you have to ask yourself is whether you affirm or deny that Jesus is the "One True God".

 

I agree....depending on how one views "oneness". What I am suggesting is that the Father and Son are One (John 10:30) and that to know Jesus is to know the Father (John 8:19; John 14:7). I am not suggesting that there does not exist a distinctness between the Father, Son, and Spirit. I am, however, suggesting that the Father is completely God, as is the Spirit and Son.

And you are right that typically Scripture (especially the Old Testament) speaks of "God". I believe that the New Testaments at least suggests that the Old Testament is about Christ, and that it is through Christ creation was made, sustained, and it was for Him it exists. I also believe that the New Testament teaches that Christ is the Logos incarnate. And that the Logos is God, and that God dwells fully in Christ.

More importantly, I believe that Scripture as a whole demonstrate that God cannot be known apart from His revelation AND that the only way for man to know God is through Christ. I believe this also includes possessing a knowledge about God (refer again to the Logos and Creation). But sometimes theology tries to take a "back door" and learn about the Father apart from what is revealed through the Son.

And even more importantly than that - the fullness of God dwellt bodily in Christ. The verse does not say that Jesus is fully God (although he is). The verse is much larger than that. The fullness of God is in Christ.

 

The Bible does not state that at all.

The Bible states that in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself. Do you see how you altered the verse to suit a predetermined meaning?

@robycop3 made a good observation. Check out what he said.