Justified by Faith alone, not Saved by faith alone?

[Mikey]

"In justification, faith receives a finished work of Christ performed outside of us and counted as ours — imputed to us. ... In final salvation at the last judgment, faith is confirmed by the sanctifying fruit it has borne, and we are saved through that fruit and that faith.

These works of faith [(1 Thessalonians 1:3; 2 Thessalonians 1:11)], and this obedience of faith [(Romans 1:5; 16:26)], these fruits of the Spirit that come by faith, are necessary for our final salvation. No holiness, no heaven (Hebrews 12:14). So, we should not speak of getting to heaven by faith alone in the same way we are justified by faith alone" - John Piper

Full Article: Does God Really Save Us by Faith Alone?

Do you agree with Piper?

 

[Mikey]

To me it sounds like that we are justified by Faith, but must do good works to obtain salvation. that faith is not enough. I don't think Piper actually thinks this, but his article can be easily interpreted that way.

One is justified and saved by faith alone, and that faith (if it is true faith) will produce good fruit/works, but it is not the works that lead to Salvation.

 

[JPPT1974]

Faith Without Works is Dead. And we must have faith in God through Jesus Christ. In order for Him to allow good works to work in around us in the world.

 

[Reformed]

The child of God will bear fruit in good works. Some bear fruit more and some less. Paul wrote in Philippians 1:6, "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." It is God the Holy Spirit that is at work in us, "both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13). This is an important fact to keep in mind, for it will keep us from thinking that we somehow cooperate with God in some aspects of our salvation. The Holy Spirit working within us does not excuse us from personal responsibility, but it is a promise of God's perfecting work in our life.

 

[HankD]

This credo statement became popular in the Reformation and was specifically focused against that which was considered by the reformers to be heresy - sacramental salvation. That sanctifying grace could only be maintained by participation of the sacraments of the Catholic Church :

Seven Sacraments of the RCC
Baptism,
Eucharist,
Confirmation,
Confession of sin/Penance,
Anointing of the sick,
Marriage,
Holy orders.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Ephesians 2:8. For by grace you have been SAVED through faith......' Yet true faith will always issue forth in action. The heroes of faith in Hebrews 11 were almost all people people who did something. 'By faith, Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice.....' If he had said to Cain, "I really believe God wants me to offer some of the firstborn of my flock to Him," and then offered up a turnip or a cauliflower, what sort of faith would that have been?

 

[Dave G]

Do you agree with Piper?

For the most part.
I see his use of the word "necessary" as leading to some questions...
Let me explain.

My view is that faith is God's gift ( Ephesians 2:8-9 ), authored and finished ( perfected ) by Christ alone ( Hebrews 12:2 ).
Scripture states many "necessary requirements" for salvation, but I happen to believe that all of the so-called "requirements" will be met by a child of God through the power of the Spirit...not by our own power, which is not enough to overcome the flesh ( Galatians 5:17 ).

True faith in Jesus Christ ( which is the faith OF Jesus Christ given to His sheep ) is accompanied by the works and endurance that show its presence, and, most importantly, are evidential in God's eyes.
Men are not perfect judges of that which God has created...so His eyes are all that count.

In reply to John Piper's statement:

These works of faith [(1 Thessalonians 1:3; 2 Thessalonians 1:11)], and this obedience of faith [(Romans 1:5; 16:26)], these fruits of the Spirit that come by faith, are necessary for our final salvation. No holiness, no heaven (Hebrews 12:14). So, we should not speak of getting to heaven by faith alone in the same way we are justified by faith alone"

...I would state,

" These works of faith and obedience of faith, these fruits of the Spirit that come by faith, are necessary for our salvation. They are not "requirements that have to be met", but are evidences that must be present in a saved person. No holiness, no Heaven. So, we should not speak of getting to Heaven by faith alone in the same way that we are shown to be justified by faith alone. Faith without ( outside of ) good works is dead."

No faith, no truly good works, in God's eyes.
No truly good works in God's eyes, no genuine faith in Jesus Christ.



The two are synonymous.

I think Mr. Piper should back off from the word "necessary", and state it simply, so that everyone is clear about what I think he really means:

" Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." ( Hebrews 11:1 ).

 

[Yeshua1]

"In justification, faith receives a finished work of Christ performed outside of us and counted as ours — imputed to us. ... In final salvation at the last judgment, faith is confirmed by the sanctifying fruit it has borne, and we are saved through that fruit and that faith.

These works of faith [(1 Thessalonians 1:3; 2 Thessalonians 1:11)], and this obedience of faith [(Romans 1:5; 16:26)], these fruits of the Spirit that come by faith, are necessary for our final salvation. No holiness, no heaven (Hebrews 12:14). So, we should not speak of getting to heaven by faith alone in the same way we are justified by faith alone" - John Piper

Full Article: Does God Really Save Us by Faith Alone?

Do you agree with Piper?

Nope, as one has to be saved in order to be fully justified!

 

[kyredneck]

Do you agree with Piper?

Just stop corrupting the gospel by adding to it and there is no problem. NO WHERE in the scriptures are we told that we are justified OR saved by faith alone. In fact we're expressly told that we are NOT justified by faith alone.

Just cease and desist the adding of one little word.

 

[Mikey]

Just stop corrupting the gospel by adding to it and there is no problem. NO WHERE in the scriptures are we told that we are justified OR saved by faith alone. In fact we're expressly told that we are NOT justified by faith alone.

Just cease and desist the adding of one little word.

we are not saved by faith alone? so how are we saved?

 

[kyredneck]

we are not saved by faith alone?

Scripture to show salvation by faith alone?

 

[Mikey]

We are saved by faith. Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God", Luke 7:50 "And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

So this faith which saves, does it save alone or not alone?

 

[tyndale1946]

Scripture to show salvation by faith alone?

What faith mine?... My faith is by Christ alone and nothing else!... Without Christ there is no Faith!... Brother Glen

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Christ alone... Tread the wine press alone... And saved his own!

 

[kyredneck]

We are saved by faith. Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God", Luke 7:50 "And He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

There's no faith 'alone' mentioned here.

So this faith which saves, does it save alone or not alone?

'Faith alone' is a Reformed creation which requires explanation as to why faith alone is not really faith alone. That's actually the gist of the OP article. It's silly.

Just cease and desist the adding of one little word and there's no explanation needed.

 

[Mikey]

There's no faith 'alone' mentioned here.


'Faith alone' is a Reformed creation which requires explanation as to why faith alone is not really faith alone. That's actually the gist of the OP article. It's silly.

Just cease and desist the adding of one little word and there's no explanation needed.

you do not need to have the exact phrase as "faith alone" in scripture for it to be a biblical doctrine

Do you believe we are saved by faith and only by faith?

 

[Mikey]

There's no faith 'alone' mentioned here.



'Faith alone' is a Reformed creation which requires explanation as to why faith alone is not really faith alone. That's actually the gist of the OP article. It's silly.

Just cease and desist the adding of one little word and there's no explanation needed.

the article is not arguing that one is not saved by faith alone (though it is confusingly written) but that a Christian must obey and to do good works. That good works is the fruit of the Spirit, and those who do not have good works do not have the Spirit and therefore not true faith, even though they profess so. The works and obedience does not save.

 

[kyredneck]

you do not need to have the exact phrase as "faith alone" in scripture for it to be a biblical doctrine

Maybe you don't but I do. What about the exact Biblical phrase "not only by faith"?

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

Do you believe we are saved by faith and only by faith?

What do you mean by 'saved'? Saved from what?

Whose faith? Mine?

Here's saved 'not only by faith':

10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; Ro 5

24 For in hope were we saved: but hope that is seen is not hope: for who hopeth for that which he seeth? Ro 8

 

[kyredneck]

That good works is the fruit of the Spirit

Agree. So is faith, a fruit of the Spirit.

those who do not have good works do not have the Spirit and therefore not true faith

That's not for you and I to judge.

 

[Mikey]

Maybe you don't but I do. What about the exact Biblical phrase "not only by faith"?

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

read that verse context. James is calling out those who are proclaiming they have faith yet do no good works. Those who say they can do what they want because they have faith.

Trinity is not in the bible, is it therefore wrong to use it?

What do you mean by 'saved'? Saved from what?

Whose faith? Mine?

Saved from death. Saved from God's wrath.

Yes your faith. faith is indeed yours, it is not someone else's.

Here's saved 'not only by faith':

10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; Ro 5

24 For in hope were we saved: but hope that is seen is not hope: for who hopeth for that which he seeth? Ro 8

Saved by Grace through Faith in Christ.

 

[Mikey]

That's not for you and I to judge.

This true, we can not tell who is saved or not, only if one is living in accordance to God's decree. However Scripture clearly teaches this is the case.