Mikey
Active Member
How would you explain how one is saved?
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Justified by Faith alone, not Saved by faith alone?
- Thread starter Mikey
- Start date
So? It doesn't change the meaning of his words:
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2
...jibes perfectly with Paul:
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
Justification by our faith alone is an outright corruption of the gospel. You're ADDING to the gospel.
Narrow, and vague.
Contradicts a passage you just used, don't you think?:
8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; Eph 2
And, if I'm conversing with someone who does not believe that our faith is a fruit of the Spirit then this dialog will soon end. I've other things to do.
9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved: Ro 10
But it's not a 'one time thing'. It's a way of life. Our salvation is an ongoing lifetime affair. And it's NOT just deliverance from God's wrath, submitting to the wisdom of God's word delivers us from all sorts of error and wrong thinking during our temporal stay on this earth.
Mikey
Active Member
Context does actually change the meaning of words.
no I am not. You also did not answer the question. Do you use the word Trinity. if you do then the argument that one can not use phrases not found in the bible is hypocritical.
. What would you say?
I never said it wasn't. "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." John 8:24
Scriptures says that I must believe. that I must have faith.
Do you not believe? Do you have faith?
You haven't meditated to any depth on the context of those passages have you?
Comparing the 'Trinity', which has been proven scriptural, to the manmade doctrine of justification by our faith alone, which is actually ANTI-scriptural, is not comparing apples with apples.
I touched upon it my last post, if you bothered to read.
...die in your sins....
Scripture also says such faith is not of yourself.
Yes! And I thank God for it!
Mikey
Active Member
it is unbecoming to belittle someone you disagree with.
Well we disagree on the later, for it is you who say we must do works to be saved, that faith is not enough. But the point is that YOU argued that since "faith alone" isn't found in scripture word for word it is extra-biblical, but you use Trinity showing that the argument was without merit.
I did, just thought there would be more since I found it narrow and vague.
Can you expound on this issue. Not quite understanding your position/distinction
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I didn't belittle you, I stated the obvious, you haven't taken the time to meditate to any depth on the context of those passages. It's very obvious.
You are misrepresenting what I posted in a large way. And, it was scripture I posted, not my words.
Bingo! You got that one right! Coupled with the fact that scripture expressly declares that 'justification is not only by faith', that's zactly what I mean!
Lol, k, as you say, we'll disagree on that later.
Save, saved, salvation = deliver, delivered, deliverance, whether it be in the eternal sense or the temporal.
Mikey
Active Member
So your position is that we are neither saved by Faith Alone nor Faith + Works?
How does this work exactly?
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What's YOUR position?:
Synergism: the doctrine that the human will cooperates with the Holy Ghost in the work of regeneration.
Monergism: the doctrine that the Holy Ghost acts independently of the human will in the work of regeneration.
I'm Monergist. Hyper, actually.
It begins on the eternal side of things where we have no say so:
20 Nevertheless in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice that your names are written in heaven. Lu 10
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1
20 Nevertheless in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice that your names are written in heaven. Lu 10
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1
Mikey
Active Member
ok, I do agree with that. Certainly it is by God's grace that I am regenerated and have faith. no doubt. And I was chosen before the world began.
But I don't quite see how that forfeits Faith alone? Faith alone is a doctrine against the idea of Faith + works salvation, that we must do works to be saved. It is not a statement that God did not work in us, that He chose us, that our faith comes from Him.
It seems to me that we agree theologically, but differ on word usage/definition.
Besides contradicting scripture, adding the word 'alone' alone forfeits it. You've corrupted it. Look at these 'justifications' from the book of Romans alone:
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Ro 3
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5
33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God`s elect? It is God that justifieth; Ro 8
...and you cherry pick 'our' faith only for justification?
[add]
...and besides all that, when it comes down to it, 'you people' DON'T really really believe in justification by faith alone. You just parrot the mantra.
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Probably more agreement than not, but I think you're conformed to the Reformed box, my stay there was brief.
Mikey
Active Member
I think we and everyone knows our positions, I will continue to think over your points but to avoid going over old ground just for arguments sake think this conversation is at an end.
PS. Is there any material (Articles or Books) that deals with the Primitive Baptist views on all this? So as to do further reading.
Thanks
Mikey
FYI, I'm not totally conformed to every notion of the Primitive Baptists either, but I do agree with their Soteriology.
Brother Mike Gowens site has some excellent essays:
http://www.sovgrace.net/theological-essays/39-salvation
George Ella's writings are very close to the PBs:
Biographia Evangelica
Jesus and paul disagree with you on that!
Calvin had this right, as he held that while we are indeed saved thru faith alone in the persona and work of Jesus Christ, the faith that saves will not be alone, will have fruit to back up the claim!
LOL! There it is! You add to the gospel one word and then you go back and explain that it doesn't really mean that.
After salvation has already happened, we will do the good works God prepared before hand for us to do, NOTHING to do with getting saved though itself!
