Featured The Two Natures of Christ

It is not "judges" or rulers but elohyim , nor God but "resident of Heaven" type

It is "ruler" Jesus did not know of what He was being accused of. His responses would not be correct.
Of course , this is impossible, It is "elohyim"

 

Psalms 82, ". . . How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. . . . "

 

The Chalcedonian Creed presents an unrealistic (unbiblical) approach to the crucifixion and tomb of Christ.

All humankind have an eternal soul.

The body dies, and the believers are immediately present with the Lord in the new body that John said from the old earthly body he had,

"2Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is."​

Death brings a transition of form to believers, yet we know so very little other than such will take place.

But what of the death of Christ?

What can we see is found in Scriptures. The PHYSICAL body died, however He stated to the thief - "today you will be with me in Paradise." So, Christ did not cease, the body was sacrificed, and He preached and displayed Himself to the OT saints and spirits of the condemned.

Peter is perhaps the best resource on this matter for he wrote,

“Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison”​

The hypostatic union WAS broken upon the death of the physical body of Christ. The body lay in the tomb, Christ was NOT in the tomb, but other places preaching and on display.

The Chalcedonian Creed states:

"...to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son,​

This is just not the truth. Christ was gloried upon resurrection, the body changed.

The Chalcedonian Creed embarks upon a journey away from the clear teaching of Scriptures.

The BODY of Christ was a PHYSICAL body just as WE have a physical body. It was 100% physical. It was not in any manner special from our own bodies. Our physical body die, but the eternal soul lives on. Christ's body died, but His work was not done. He had more places to visit and preaching to be done while the body was taken off the cross, wrapped, and lay in the tomb. That is the teaching of Scriptures.

Just as God was intricately involved in the birth of Christ, so too was He involved in the resurrection.

Paul writes in Romans,

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwells in you."​

The ESV translates it :

"Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father,"​

How often do preachers cling to a creed that presents a failed presentation of Scriptures!

How often have we all said, "Christ died" thinking that it was the very God and not the PHYSICAL vessel of Christ that died. That vessel that (as the atonement lamb) took upon Himself the sins of all the "Kosmos (Cosmos)."

God cannot die, The Christ cannot die, but the body that housed the God-man certainly could.

The Hypostatic union was broken from the point, "Into Thy hands I commend my Spirit."

The creed is wrong, too wrong to be of true value to those of us who cling to Scriptures as our final authority.

 

It should be noted that Christ's soul died on the cross before His body died. Sin was paid for with His blood and the death of His soul. Both is soul and body were brought back from the dead. First His soul and second His body.

Now God who can never die, died on the cross by way of His Son. So God like His Son, in that His Son who is both not God and God, both died and never died. You do not like this explanation? Then this is your problem not mine. As a Christian you know God - so find out from Him yourself. It is what the holy scriptures teach.

 

It should be noted the total lack of posting any supportive Scriptures.

Perhaps you will try again and support your thinking in these areas:

1) that Christ had a soul such as human kind have a soul.
2 that the supposed soul of Christ died.
3) that the death paid for the sin and not just the blood.
4) that both the soul and body were brought back from the dead.
5) that it was in the order of first the soul and then the body.
​

Give Scriptural proof so there is some basis for your thinking other then we will all be able to verify what you consider the Scriptures teach.

​

 

He did not a soul as we do.. He was God His spiritual person was God.
A soul does not die anyway, not mine or yours. We will live in eternity without our bodies.
We are created spiritual beings has a body prepared for us. He was the Creator that also had a body prepared for Him

 

Jesus died physically, and both His divine and human natures still were with Him awaiting the physical resurrection!

 

No. Jesus only had one soul as being one Person.
(Note regarding the prophecy of His resurrection being cited, Acts 2:27.)

Isaiah 53:10-12.

His soul had to die in order to pay for sin with His blood. Leviticus 17:11. Isaiah 53:12.

The payment for sin was completed before His body died (Matthew 27:46 forsaken on the cross) Soul restored, John 19:28-30; Luke 23:46. Both body and soul raised from the dead, Acts 2:27.​

You have evidently not carefully studied this. Now you can.

 

Please see my post #69

 

why you made it uo.

Souls do not dies as the physical bodies do

 

Souls are mortal. Ezekiel 18:4; James 5:20; Isaiah 53:10.

Jesus taught killing the body does not kill the soul. But taught both body and soul die (are destroyed) in the second death, geheena (Matthew 10:28). It is not annihilation (Mark 9:48; Psalms 22:6; Isaiah 53:10).

 

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What did Peter state was taking place in "Hades"? Preaching.
Jesus was not tormented (assuming that is what you think) but preaching to those "condemned already" prisoners. The preaching was by no Scripture authority an offer of Salvation or even that of some measure of reconciliation, but rather to show that those beings imprisoned were justly there.

Perhaps there should be a bit of adjustment made to your presentation.

First, the blood was slathered all during the crucifixion, very little upon the cross.

History documentation indicates the Roman execution by a cross was meant to be as bloodless yet as pain filled as possible. The person being crucified would often survive multiple days before they could no longer lift their bodies up to exhale. The crucified prisoner dies not from blood loss but being unable to complete the breathing cycle.

This was written in the American Journal of Medicine, and it would do your view support and oblige some moderate changes. It is documentary of the crucifixion from the medical / scientific approach. The research is formable, the writers highly educated, and it has pictures to help those who need graphics.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/deathjesus.pdf


Second, the Scripture states, "Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin."
No blood = no forgiveness.

Doesn't say death, it says blood.

Expanding on that thought and knowing that the cross was not a place for blood letting, then where was the blood shed?

Blood was shed from the garden to the tomb, but there is more. Beside it performing what only the Blood could accomplish, it is also symbolic of the cycle of man. From the garden of Eden until the death of Adam, and by extension from all peoples birth thought the ways one journeys, the religiousness, the political, the lowliest of station to the most esteemed of power, until death, all sin is forgiven.

Not a single drop of blood was wasted, be it on the hands that smote Him, the whip that lashed Him, the thorns that pierced him, road upon which He stumbled, the wrappings of His naked body as they laid Him in the borrowed grave, not a single drop was not shed without purpose.


The atonement was not just the blood, it included the furnishings in which the blood was sprinkled, and where the the action took place. Amazing and also interesting, is that what humankind consider reality may be but a picture of what and where reality took place. Scriptures indicate that which was from human perspective here on earth actually took place in heaven.

11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.​

The crucifixion was more than just what took place on earth. It was (according to Hebrews) actually performed in heaven ("perfect tabernacle, not made with hands - not of this creation").

He was the High Priest who carried His Own Blood into that Holy Place of the tabernacle not made with hands.

Friend, there is far more to the crucifixion than what you imagined in the few words you wrote, and far more than I have written in this post or any other single post.

Please allow one more kind word.

Do not assume that those who post know less than you.

Be as Timothy, show your own handling of the Scriptures is more perfect through diligence of study resulting being approved by God.

 

To many questions and comments.

It is not explicitly so stated. But that is my understanding. 1 Peter 3:18-19. The sons of God in Genesis 6:2 where men not angles, 1 Peter 4:6. They were already sons of God prior to them being preached to.

The nether world/Sheol/Hades had two compartments. The upper compartment for the saved and the lower for the lost, Luke 16:19-31; Deuteronomy 32:22; Psalms 86:13.

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Isaiah 53:5; Matthew 27:26; 1 Peter 2:24 ". . . stripes . . ." in the Greek is singular "stripe." Jesus' back was ripped bare of skin prior to Him going on the cross.

". . . poured out his soul . . ." speaks of Him shedding His blood on the cross. Isaiah 53:12. How His soul died.

The word of God teaches no such thing.

Huh?

Romans 14:9.

Add Hebrews 9:24; noting again, Isaiah 53:12.

 

"poured out his soul" does not pertain to blood in Isaiah 53.

12Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,j
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;​

Rather,

10Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him;
he has put him to grief;
when his soul makes an offering for guilt,
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11Out of the anguish of his soul he shall seei and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.​

The "pouring out of His soul" is aligned with the physical suffering, the brutality, that which was done from the garden to the grave.

The loss of blood was not the cause of the death.

Christ said, He alone had "power to lay it down and power to take it up." John 10

It is poor that some do not recognize that the blood was shed, how it was shed, to what purpose it was shed, and that such was presented in reality in heaven as He as the High Priest took His own blood into the Holy of Holies that was in heaven and not on earth (Hebrews) (as the OT sacrifices) then it remains as I stated and encouraged.

You have much more to learn of the crucifixion.

But, frankly, this is not the thread to continue this line of posts. These post discussions should take place in a different thread.

So, I think it wise to leave this topic and return to the OP.

 

". . . poured out his soul to death . . ." does in fact refer to the shedding of His blood. See Leviticus 17:11, ". . . the life [Hebrew for soul] of the flesh is in the blood, . . ."

Jesus soul died on the cross prior to His physical death, which you correctly pointed out was wholly in His own power, John 10:17-18. John 19:28 Jesus had just finished "laying down is life [Greek for soul] v.17.

 

Two small problems with your statement.

Leviticus “In the blood” is to be taken as what the blood contains.

The molecular structure of the blood carries that which is necessary for life. It is not life itself.

This principle is shown in Exodus. The warning message went out indiscriminately through the land, just as the seed is scattered in the parable of the sower.

The blood splattered on the Passover was left as a sign for the neighbors and the angel. A testimony of belief.

The blood of the savior carried the resolve for the sin issue of all creation. However, it brought no life in itself, nor was the saviors life taken from Him by blood loss.

That is not the teaching of Scripture.

The second problem is how you are using death.

The Greek word used for “dead” is never presented in other than pertaining to physical cessation.

For example: “the wages of sin is death”. “Death” is used as ceasing to be physically viable. No doubt it can pertain to eternal death in which the soul of those without Christ are tormented and have no new body in which to be clothed. But even then those dead have no physical body.

The earth and sea giving up the dead does not present them with some body of protection, but the souls stand unprotected befor the judge, cast naked into the flames.

Christ’s body did not cease until He determined “accomplished” and the eternal within the body of flesh never died. It matters little if one calls it a soul or the breath of life, it is eternal. It never dies, cannot die. Christ being life, the body continued until He determine the cessation. Not from lack of blood.

Example: parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

 

The blood is the means by which the soul resides in the flesh. The soul does not reside in the blood.

Jesus after His blood loss for sin (John 19:28), by His own volition left His body (John 10:18; John 19:20; Luke 23:46.)

The account of the rich man and Lazarus is not a parable. Abraham, Moses, the prophets and Lazarus are actual persons in the account. Luke 16:19-31; Deuteronomy 32:22; Psalms 86:13.

The word of God teaches the mortality of the soul, Ezekiel 18:4; James 5:20; Matthew 10:28, where Jesus makes the point that the death of the body is not when the soul is to die.