Are these Hymns Biblical?

Subjective, yes. But some testimony is going to be subjective by its nature. Subjective testimony must be based first and foremost on, and agree with, "for the Bible tells me so." That doesn't disallow testimony or experience, and there should be should experiential testimony of Christ in our hearts. He dwells in us by faith (Ephesians 3:17), Christ in us is the hope of glory (Colossians 1:27), and the Spirit bears witness with our spirits (Romans 8:15-16). Might it have been expressed better? Yes. For example, the author might have included the objective testimony of Scripture with his personal testimony. Is it unbiblical? I don't think so. Seems to me the things the hymn writer testifies of Christ accord with the Scriptures.

I think Mike has a point on this one, concerning stanzas 2 & 3 -- perfect submission, even though most all of us will probably keep singing it! Stanza 1 seems fine to me.

God initiates; man responds. Seems like this hymn has it backwards.

A lot of speculative thoughts here that are not addressed or answered in Scripture. I always thought Martin Luther was supposed to be the author of this one, but I looked it up and it sounds like scholarship has found its origin is much later, and possibly in America.

I like this song. I don't think it is unbiblical to have both patriotic and sentimental feeling towards one's country (regardless of what that country is). This song can have a place in patriotic celebrations and the like, but I don't believe patriotic songs have any place in the gathered worship of the church.

Well, that's my two cents!

 

Agree. I don't know about elsewhere, but from the end of the 1800s and through the 20th century, the American religious songs seem to have become increasingly one-sided toward joy & happiness to the exclusion of trouble & sorrow. Jesus is the answer to trouble & sorrow, but we shouldn't pretend it doesn't exist.

 

Perhaps one of the worst is the very popular Christmas carol -

O come all ye faithful,
joyful & triumphant;
come ye, O come ye to Bethlehem.
Come & behold him,
born the king of angels.
O come let us adore him... Christ the Lord.

How many carollers are faithful? They may be joyful in a carnal sense, but hardly triumphant. And was Jesus born king of the angels?

It was written in Latin around 1745 at the time of the last invasion of England to encourage supporters of the Jacobite pretender, Bonny Price Charlie, the grandson of the last RC King James 2, who fled the country in 1689 & continued to fight for the crown.

"The meaning of the Christmas carol is clear: 'Come and Behold Him, Born the King of Angels' really means, 'Come and Behold Him, Born the King of the English' - Bonnie Prince Charlie!"

The Latin version was written by John Francis Wade, an English Catholic who fled the country after the failed 1745 rebellion. At school we learnt the Latin version.

I think its popularity means we cannot remove it from the Christmas repertoire, but it can be rescued. My rewrite is -

O come all you sinners,
weary, heavy laden,
come to the Saviour born at Bethlehem.
Come in repentance,
find new life in Jesus,
O come let us adore him... Christ the Lord.

 

In The Sacred Harp, we have the English translation by Benjamin Carr, which is slightly different from the "standard" 'O come all ye faithful' heard at Christmas.

 

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

worship - Grk proskunao - Liddell Scott 34580.2 of the Oriental fashion of making the Salam or prostrating one's self before kings and superiors.

 

He was always King of the angels but his incarnation was specifically for man, to save his people into his Kingdom. The point of my post is that the writing of the carol is NOT about Jesus, or the angels, but in support of the RC Jacobite pretender, bonny Prince Charlie, born king of the English.

 

Oh OK.

 

I've never checked this in Latin, or how the translations compare to the original -- but the English translation we use avoids the phrase "born the king of angels."

Hither, ye faithful, haste with songs of triumph,
To Bethlehem haste, the Lord of life to meet;
To you this day is born a Prince and Savior;
Oh come, and let us worship at His feet.

O, Jesus, for such wondrous condescension
Our prayers and reverence are an offering meet;
Now is the Word made flesh and dwells among us:
Oh come, and let us worship at His feet.

This may not remove all of Ian's objections, but perhaps some.

 

That reads like a new hymn written based very loosely on the old.

 

Information I've found says this was translated by Benjamin Carr from Adeste Fidelis in 1805.

 

I agree. Somehwere round about 1850, the older doctrinal hymns seem to have given way to more sentimental ones. Perhaps it has to do with the Romantic era in music or with the coming of liberal theology.

We don't want to be miserable all the time, but sometimes we do need to get real. From time to time we sing this one in our church:

We have not known Thee as we ought,
Nor learned Thy wisdom, grace and power;
The things of earth have filled our thought,
And trifles of the passing hour.
Lord, give us light Thy truth t see,
And make us wise in knowing Thee.

We have not feared Thee as we ought,
Nor bowed beneath Thy watchful eye;
Nor guarded deed and word and thought
Remembering that God was nigh.
Lord, give us faith to know Thee near,
And grant the grace of loving fear.

We have not served Thee as we ought,
Alas! The duties left undone!
The work with little fervour wrought,
The battles lost, or scarcely won.
Lord, give the zeal, and give the might,
For Thee to toil, for Thee to fight.

We have not loved Thee as we ought,
Nor cared that we are loved by thee;
They presence we have coldly sought,
And feebly longed Thy face to see.
Lord, give a pure and loving heart,
To feel and know the love Thou art.

 

Wow!, worst? — It's a favorite of trendy 'modern hymn writers' the Gettys.

featured in Southern Baptist denominational organ Baptist Press:

December 6, 2019 • Keith & Kristyn Getty's concert tour closes every show with "O Come All Ye Faithful"

"It's a simple carol that tells the story of the Christ child and encourages us to join with the angels in celebrating and declaring the birth of our Savior"

"The carol is full of snappy theological phrases"

"this hymn has one of the best choruses ever written. The invitation to all....to forget what is holding us back, to let go of all else that might be occupying our minds, and to just 'come'."

 

sung by Miss Jessye Norman († 30 Sept. 2019) at Ely Cathedral: