Well, it said he believed and was baptized. Yet later on it appears he fell away. Just like many of the Christ’s disciples did at the end of John 6.
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The Nature of "called" in 1 Cor. 1:26-31
- Thread starter The Biblicist
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He had to be resurrected in order to save them; and at the time of Jn 2:23-24 that aspect of His Name was yet unknown to them.
Do you think there may be a difference in professing to believe in the Lord versus really believing in the Lord? In other words, do you think people make false professions?
Forever Settled
Active Member
This verse disagrees with your statement :
John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
All are commanded to repent and believe and all are accountable to repent and believe but Jesus makes it crystal clear that no man is ABLE to repent and believe - Jn. 6:44 and that inability is due to their fall into sin.
Regeneration is the act of God inside of man that produces a believing heart by divine fiat. In John 6;45 where Jesus explains what it means for the Father to "draw" and whom it is that he draws as he refers to "prophets" (plural) and cites part of Isaiah 54:13 which infers that "draw" means they "all" will be "taught of God." The "all" is qualified in Isaiah 54:13 to be "all thy people" and the effectual consequences is that they "shall have great peace."
The other prophet he seems to be citing with reference to drawing being the teaching act of God is Jeremiah 31:33-34 where this act of teaching is further explained to be God writing His law on their hearts (v. 33) in such a manner that it effectually brings "all" who are thus taught to a saving knowledge of God, from "the least of them unto the greatest of them" so that they savingly know God by this internal action of God.
2 Corinthians 4:5-7 demonstrate regeneration is comparable to the creative command of God to call light out of darkness in Genesis 1;2-3 - thus an effectual call that replaces darkness with the metaphorical "light of the knowledge of God IN THE FACE OF JESUS CHRIST" as presented in the gospel by men (vv. 5,7) but by the "power of God." Paul further explains this manner in which the gospel comes to His elect (1 Thess. 1:4-5) denying it comes "in word only" but also "in power, in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance."
In Romans 10:17-18 this same gospel delivered by men, but empowered by the command of God that creates faith (Gr. Rhema - "word") but when the command only comes from the messenger of the gospel there is no faith created (v. 18).
Acts 10:43 says that all the prophets preached Christ prior to his first coming and that remission of sins was obtained by "believing in his name." Abraham believed in Christ (Rom. 4) as Jesus plainly states that he saw Christ by faith (Jn. 8). Isaiah preached the gospel of Christ clearly (Isa. 53) and Paul plainly calls it the gospel (Rom. 10:16).
The idea that no one could be saved, could believe the gospel, could be regenerated, could have righteousness of Christ imputed to them, or could receive remissions of sins prior to the cross is pure mythical and based upon mishandling the Word of God and contrary to multiple clear and explicit scriptures that teach the very reverse (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2; Jn.3:3-9; 5:24; etc.).
God applied the power of the gospel (regeneration/justification/sanctification) by faith in the PROMISE that Christ would come and make the legal provision for salvation. All that Jesus did was provide what had been promised, but the application is based upon "the everlasting covenant" (Heb. 13:20) directly by God to his people prior to the cross. The writer of Hebrews makes it clear that the gospel was preached prior to the cross (Heb. 4:2) but the gospel was not mixed with faith in those who rebelled against God and died in the wilderness. Regeneration is the act by which God mixes the gospel with faith in the heart or what prior to the New Testament scriptures was called "circumcision of the heart" and God commanded that priests who worked in his temple be both circumcised in the flesh AND circumcised in the heart - Ezek. 44:7-9.
Did the #2 or #3 soil of Matthew 13:20-22 decide to save themselves? To repeat, it is God and God alone who decides to save a person, He and He alone transfers them into Christ based on Him and Him alone crediting their faith as righteousness.
Next, you asked if people who had obtained approval through faith went to hell before Christ rose from the dead. Ever hear of Abraham's bosom?
Forever Settled
Active Member
I know that but You didn’t seem to . You are very unsettled in what you are attempting to say.
More who believed but were unsaved :
John 8:30
As he spake these words, many believed on him.
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:59
Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
My view is consistent with all scripture, yours is not. Thus your view is unsettled.
Yes, some who think they are saved because of their "lip service" faith, but if God did not credit their faith as righteousness, they are unsaved. God decides who to saved, we do not.
None of your verses seem germane.
Jhn 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Some of Christ's earthly following professed faith, but Jesus knew who believed not.
Yes, some who think they are saved because of their "lip service" faith, but if God did not credit their faith as righteousness, they are unsaved. God decides who to saved, we do not.
None of your verses seem germane.
Jhn 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Some of Christ's earthly following professed faith, but Jesus knew who believed not.
Eternal life is not the end goal, but rather eternal life in Christ Jesus resurrected; something God had yet to bring about in Jn 2:24 and Jn 5:24. Their eternal life was guaranteed but yet to be brought to completion.
"for as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive" (1Cor 15:22)
What does any of this have to do with the nature of calling in 1Cor 1?
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Gregg....I offered two verses here. Could you explain how natural men who hate God and His word believe in Him?
Do all natural men hate God? Does being unsaved prohibit someone from repenting and believing?
Hi Gregg T, adding to scripture allows the meaning to be altered.
Here is the NASB Romans 8:7: because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
Here the misunderstanding says a lost person is unable to set their mind of spiritual things. But Matthew 23:13 demonstrates lost people can seek God (they were in the process of entering the kingdom) and so Romans 8:7 allows for the lost to some of the time to set their mind on spiritual things.
Next, the NASB 1 Corinthians 2:14: But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
Here the misunderstanding says a natural man does not accept [any of] the things of the Spirit of God. However, if you read a few verses farther, to 1 Corinthians 3:1 you see that men of flesh can understand milk, the fundamentals of the gospel.
NASB 1 Corinthians 3:1
And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
Ripping one verse out of context and then ignoring all the other verses which show that interpretation is bogus is of no value.
Here is the NASB Romans 8:7: because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
Here the misunderstanding says a lost person is unable to set their mind of spiritual things. But Matthew 23:13 demonstrates lost people can seek God (they were in the process of entering the kingdom) and so Romans 8:7 allows for the lost to some of the time to set their mind on spiritual things.
Next, the NASB 1 Corinthians 2:14: But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
Here the misunderstanding says a natural man does not accept [any of] the things of the Spirit of God. However, if you read a few verses farther, to 1 Corinthians 3:1 you see that men of flesh can understand milk, the fundamentals of the gospel.
NASB 1 Corinthians 3:1
And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
Ripping one verse out of context and then ignoring all the other verses which show that interpretation is bogus is of no value.
Gregg, yes, they hate the God revealed in scripture. They do love the god of their imagination however.
Yes being unsaved means they are under sins dominion and power. Furthermore, they are blinded by Satan.;2cor4;
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Forever Settled
Active Member
Forever Settled
Active Member
Once again a real Bible would benefit your understanding.
1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I don't think it's logical to ignore the fact that the Same word is used in 2 verses.
I also think maybe you are missing Paul's point, he is telling the Corinthians hey , you Have the Spirit, you can understand these spiritual truths I am teaching you, you are not like a natural (lost) man who lacks the Spirit in his life.
Notice the first word in vs 14 "BUT" he is now pointing out they are not like a spiritless Lost man.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:for they are foolishness unto him:neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Jude 1:19
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Same word, natural, sensual men have not the Spirit.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Decisional Regeneration = The process by which a person, through an act of the will, can make themselves born again.
An alternate definition:
Decisional Regeneration = The process by which a man or woman can cooperate with God in gaining the gift of eternal life, by contributing the one thing God "requires" to be born again...belief in His Son.
Simply put, the act of belief in Christ as Saviour, triggers the process of making one born again;
God is obliged to grant a person eternal life or eternal damnation, based on their choice of His Son.
IMO, it's very popular today, and was widely preached during a certain man's "crusades" all through the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's.
It's also found all over television, radio and the internet, and varies slightly depending on who is preaching it.
But it always makes man the "weak link" by insisting that he contribute some piece or pieces to God's plan of salvation.
Essentially, it is distilled down to one equation:
God does His part, and man does his part.
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15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." ( Matthew 7:21-23 )
Also, the parable of the sower ( Matthew 13:18-23 ) and the parable of the tares ( Matthew 13:24-30, Matthew 13:36-43 ).
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