Spurgeon disproves Calvinism

[Ran the Man]

Here I go, first post and jumping right into the deep end of the pool with the Calvinist guys.

Sturgeon said something ,I believe, about God controlling even the dust floating in the sunlight coming in the window. I want to use this statement as my diving board into these waters:
1. Lets change "dust" for pollen,or pollen floating in the sunlight
2. If God controls every speck of pollen, why is there SO MUCH pollen? We are taught in science that flowers produce millions of pollen TO INCREASE THE CHANCE THAT A POLLEN WILL MEET WITH THE FEMALE FLOWER.
3. If God is controlling every speck, why not just make each male flower produce ONE SPECK OF POLLEN and be done with it? Would that not glorify Him sufficiently,as the chance of mating success would be so small it must be God?
4. Conclusion: if there are so many pollen to maximize chance, then God is not controlling it.What is chance is not control. Spurgeon's example disproves itself.

 

[Reynolds]

Here I go, first post and jumping right into the deep end of the pool with the Calvinist guys.

Sturgeon said something ,I believe, about God controlling even the dust floating in the sunlight coming in the window. I want to use this statement as my diving board into these waters:
1. Lets change "dust" for pollen,or pollen floating in the sunlight
2. If God controls every speck of pollen, why is there SO MUCH pollen? We are taught in science that flowers produce millions of pollen TO INCREASE THE CHANCE THAT A POLLEN WILL MEET WITH THE FEMALE FLOWER.
3. If God is controlling every speck, why not just make each male flower produce ONE SPECK OF POLLEN and be done with it? Would that not glorify Him sufficiently,as the chance of mating success would be so small it must be God?
4. Conclusion: if there are so many pollen to maximize chance, then God is not controlling it.What is chance is not control. Spurgeon's example disproves itself.

Who is Sturgeon? A fish?

 

[tyndale1946]

Who is Sturgeon? A fish?

At the least you can use his full name!... Charles Haddon Sturgeon... I mean Spurgeon!!!... Brother Glen

 

[Ran the Man]

Another thought I'd like to add:
If God

Who is Sturgeon? A fish?

Ha ha. Correcting.

 

[Ran the Man]

Yes, Charles Hadden Spurgeon, big fish that he was, disproves his own Calvinist viewpoint by the above analysis. Continue please.

 

[JonC]

A few thoughts come to mind.

Pollen is not strictly for the reproduction of the plant. Some organisms depend on pollen (as s food source). Without excess pollen we also have no honey.

God is glorified in nature itself (in the "excess").

 

[Reformed]

The OP cannot be taken seriously.

The Spurgeon Archive—Main Menu

Please try a new tactic to slander CHS.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[MartyF]

Here I go, first post and jumping right into the deep end of the pool with the Calvinist guys.

Sturgeon said something ,I believe, about God controlling even the dust floating in the sunlight coming in the window. I want to use this statement as my diving board into these waters:
1. Lets change "dust" for pollen,or pollen floating in the sunlight
2. If God controls every speck of pollen, why is there SO MUCH pollen? We are taught in science that flowers produce millions of pollen TO INCREASE THE CHANCE THAT A POLLEN WILL MEET WITH THE FEMALE FLOWER.
3. If God is controlling every speck, why not just make each male flower produce ONE SPECK OF POLLEN and be done with it? Would that not glorify Him sufficiently,as the chance of mating success would be so small it must be God?
4. Conclusion: if there are so many pollen to maximize chance, then God is not controlling it.What is chance is not control. Spurgeon's example disproves itself.

Maybe you're an Armenian and that's why you're trying the silly philosophical route. You're basically going up against Plato and letting him dictate the battleground. The problems with Calvinism and Arminianism is not philosophical. Fatalism (although both will deny it) is a valid philosophical belief. They just aren't a biblical beliefs.

The Spurgeon Archive—Main Menu

6,202 words - almost a novella - not a single scripture.

This is standard for Calvinism/Arminianism. Of course, if you are Armenian I can understand your trying to do the philosophical route. Unfortunately, Arminianism is not as philosophically sound as Calvinism, IMO, so you're fighting a losing battle.

 

[Reformed1689]

Here I go, first post and jumping right into the deep end of the pool with the Calvinist guys.

Sturgeon said something ,I believe, about God controlling even the dust floating in the sunlight coming in the window. I want to use this statement as my diving board into these waters:
1. Lets change "dust" for pollen,or pollen floating in the sunlight
2. If God controls every speck of pollen, why is there SO MUCH pollen? We are taught in science that flowers produce millions of pollen TO INCREASE THE CHANCE THAT A POLLEN WILL MEET WITH THE FEMALE FLOWER.
3. If God is controlling every speck, why not just make each male flower produce ONE SPECK OF POLLEN and be done with it? Would that not glorify Him sufficiently,as the chance of mating success would be so small it must be God?
4. Conclusion: if there are so many pollen to maximize chance, then God is not controlling it.What is chance is not control. Spurgeon's example disproves itself.

How exactly does this disprove Calvinism again?

 

[Rob_BW]

How exactly does this disprove Calvinism again?

I'm not sure, but I'm betting an analogy between pollen and human souls is forthcoming.

If not, I'm at a loss.

 

[Dave G]

Charles Haddon Spurgeon:

"There is no soul living who holds more firmly to the doctrines of grace than I do, and if any man asks me whether I am ashamed to be called a Calvinist, I answer—I wish to be called nothing but a Christian; but if you ask me, do I hold the doctrinal views which were held by John Calvin, I reply, I do in the main hold them, and rejoice to avow it."

" And what is the heresy of Arminianism but the addition of something to the work of the Redeemer? Every heresy, if brought to the touchstone, will discover itself here. I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else”.

It looks to me as if Spurgeon believed that God controlled every facet of salvation, and that this "nickname" was referred to as "Calvinism".

 

[Ran the Man]

A few thoughts come to mind.

Pollen is not strictly for the reproduction of the plant. Some organisms depend on pollen (as s food source). Without excess pollen we also have no honey.

God is glorified in nature itself (in the "excess").

which animals beside bees eat honey?
So why have excess? to insure the chance of ingestion.

 

[Ran the Man]

I'm not sure, but I'm betting an analogy between pollen and human souls is forthcoming.

If not, I'm at a loss.

Ill say it a little more straight, and i hope the mods will allow it:
Why does a man produce so much semen if its going to come in contact with one egg and God directs the contact? If God causes it all to happen, why do we need a million sperm per ejeculation to make it happen? why not have one sperm and one egg?

 

[Ran the Man]

Maybe you're an Armenian and that's why you're trying the silly philosophical route. You're basically going up against Plato and letting him dictate the battleground. The problems with Calvinism and Arminianism is not philosophical. Fatalism (although both will deny it) is a valid philosophical belief. They just aren't a biblical beliefs.

The Spurgeon Archive—Main Menu

6,202 words - almost a novella - not a single scripture.

This is standard for Calvinism/Arminianism. Of course, if you are Armenian I can understand your trying to do the philosophical route. Unfortunately, Arminianism is not as philosophically sound as Calvinism, IMO, so you're fighting a losing battle.

Who cares about philosophy?

 

[Ran the Man]

The OP cannot be taken seriously.

The Spurgeon Archive—Main Menu

Please try a new tactic to slander CHS.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Who's slandering? Slandering is accusing him of wrong doing for which he is not guilty of. If you mean i was slandering him by my busy misspelling ( or was it spell checker) that's wrong.

 

[tyndale1946]

Ill say it a little more straight, and i hope the mods will allow it:
Why does a man produce so much semen if its going to come in contact with one egg and God directs the contact? If God causes it all to happen, why do we need a million sperm per ejeculation to make it happen? why not have one sperm and one egg?

How about this senario, with man its a million to one... With God it only took one!... Brother Glen

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

 

[Ran the Man]

How about this senario, with man its a million to one... With God it only took one!... Brother Glen

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

That's why it's special, because it didn't happen the way it usually happens, with sperm instead of Spirit.

 

[tyndale1946]

That's why it's special, because it didn't happen the way it usually happens, with sperm instead of Spirit.

Same as every child of God, born naturally, then born of the Spirit... Brother Glen

 

[Ran the Man]

Same as every child of God, born naturally, then born of the Spirit... Brother Glen

If we're born of the spirit, why do we need to be born again?
And you just disavowed the uniqueness of the Conception of Christ.

 

[Reformed1689]

which animals beside bees eat honey?

Winnie the Pooh