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Interpreting OT Scripture

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Deacon, Mar 3, 2019.

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  1. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    We began a 6 week course on interpreting the various OT genre in our Sunday morning Bible study.
    I’m using an outline of John Walton and D. Brent Sandy’s book, The Lost World Of Scripture.
    The first two weeks I’ve introduced the class to various important concepts and the doctrines relating to the interpretation of Scripture, ...Authority, Revelation, Inspiration.
    Perhaps I went further than many were prepared to go, some left the class confused or with questions.
    One of the questions I asked that perplexed some was this:

    Can we assume that the biblical authors understood the messages they were communicating? TRUE or FALSE​

    Answer this question and provide the reason why you take this stance.

    Rob
     
    #1 Deacon, Mar 3, 2019
  2. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    What do you mean by your question? Are you asking whether the OT biblical authors understood the prophetic passages they wrote or do you mean everything they wrote? Did Moses have special insight into Genesis 3:15 that gave him understanding that the one who would crush the serpent's head was Jesus of Nazareth? I do not know if the understanding of the OT biblical authors was that granular. The OT is built on progressive revelation. I see no evidence in scripture that the biblical authors had special knowledge beyond their own thoughts.
     
    #2 Reformed, Mar 3, 2019
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  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    No.[False]
    • Did Moses understand Genesis 3:15 to be about Mary, Jesus, the devil, the crucifixion, the resurrection, and the final victory? No, I don't believe he did.
    • Did Moses understand Leviticus 14 to be a foreshadowing of the crucifixion? Again, I don't believe he did.
    • Did Malachi know that John the Baptist would fulfill the prophecy of Elijah's return. I think not.
    • Did King David know that Jesus would be repeating his words in Psalm 22? I say no.
    Unless they were omniscient, the writer's of the Bible could not 100% absorb the full and complete meaning of the Word of an omniscient God.

    Even if he inspired them [and he did] with each jot and tittle of each word.
     
    #3 Scarlett O., Mar 3, 2019
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  4. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    True, for the most part. False, for some prophecies.
    Obviously, the historical books are easily understood by the authors. Psalms and Proverbs too. Probably most prophecies relating to Israel were understood as to what was going to happen but likely not as to when.

    When it comes to prophecies regarding Jesus the Messiah and salvation it gets a bit murky. Peter alludes to this:


    Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.
    1 Peter 1:10‭-‬12 NIV
    --

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
    #4 InTheLight, Mar 3, 2019
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  5. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    The question is a bit open ended. I’d answer TRUE.

    Here are my thoughts.

    The Holy Spirit effectively communicated the message to be conveyed through the biblical author. To communicate the message the recipient (the biblical author) needs to understand the message, otherwise we end up with God dictating his word without concern about those to whom he is communicating. It could mean anything. But God is spoke his word with the purpose of communicating a distinct message.

    Perhaps the author did not know the “how” of the message (the specific way God would work out his purposes) but the the author did know the purpose of the message, that is the response God intended the message to produce.
    1 Peter 1:10-13


    On the other hand...
    Numbers 12:6-8
    The LORD speaks to some prophets in dreams and visions, as if in riddles.
    Others (like Moses), he speaks to personally (“mouth to mouth”).
    But here in this passage it contrasts Moses to Aaron and Miriam, we might simply presume God did not speak to them directly.

    Rob
     
    #5 Deacon, Mar 3, 2019
  6. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    I know you've read Heiser. How do you feel about his assertion that some prophecy was cryptic to confound the enemy?
     
    #6 Rob_BW, Mar 3, 2019
  7. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Not so keen on encryption, too close to the BibleCode garbage.

    Rob
     
    #7 Deacon, Mar 3, 2019
  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Along with 1 Peter 1, the other key text is Romans 15:4. The Old Testament was written for our benefit.
     
    #8 Martin Marprelate, Mar 3, 2019
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  9. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    My concerns with answering FALSE, (the biblical authors did not understand the message the were communicating) is that the interpretation of prophecy then can become a headline chaser.
    Remember the 1970’s, The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Linsey.
    He fit everything together, “this is what the prophets really meant....”, the European Union, Russia, helicopters, burning tanks, etc. It sounded like Christ’s coming would happen as we read the book. The book became dated so fast!
    I don’t think the interpretation of prophecy should viewed through modern events.
    That’s newpaper interpretation of prophecy... or interpretation by tweet.

    I believe the biblical authors were the conduit for God as he revealed something about himself. They could communicate what was revealed to them exactly the way God intended because God intended the message to be understood by those to whom it was given.

    Scripture was written to Israel, for us. To understand the message properly we need to first understand it in its historical context as those to whom it was first written understood it.

    Rob
     
    #9 Deacon, Mar 3, 2019
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  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    With regard to some things they did understand (Acts 2:30-31; 10:43 understood the basic gospel promise of a redeemer) but with other things they did not understand (1 Pet. 1:11 - timing of his coming).
     
    #10 The Biblicist, Mar 3, 2019
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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That question and its answer goes to how one know what one knows. One's personal experience such as found cited in Romans 8:16 for example would prompt a true (Titus 1:2).
     
    #11 37818, Mar 4, 2019
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks Deacon for asking a question that requires critical thinking, study and prayer.

    "Can we assume that the biblical authors understood the messages they were communicating? TRUE or FALSE"

    1) Why should we assume one way or the other?

    2) Does the fact they fully understood all the implications (or not) alter our understanding of their words? (Note if we supply fully the answer may differ from if we supply "partially understood.")

    3) It seems to me that New Testament writers sometimes took the words of the OT and applied them differently than the audience at the time would be aware of.

    4) Since the words were inspired, it is possible both an immediate application (which the writer understood) and a future application (applicable to Christ or end times) was beyond the understanding of the writer.
     
    #12 Van, Mar 4, 2019
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I believe they did understand it and is why God inspired them to do so

    MB
     
    #13 MB, Mar 4, 2019
  14. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    If you have to include all biblical writers, then the answer is obviously false.

    I'm lazy and a bit busy right now. So, here's part of my explanation.



    Of course, it matters which author you are talking about.

    Here are some better questions.

    Jeremiah 23:5-6 NLT
    “For the time is coming,” says the LORD, “when I will raise up a righteous descendant from King David’s line. He will be a King who rules with wisdom. He will do what is just and right throughout the land. [6] And this will be his name: ‘The LORD Is Our Righteousness.’ In that day Judah will be saved, and Israel will live in safety.

    Jeremiah 33:15-16 NLT
    “In those days and at that time I will raise up a righteous descendant from King David’s line. He will do what is just and right throughout the land. [16] In that day Judah will be saved, and Jerusalem will live in safety. And this will be its name: ‘The LORD Is Our Righteousness.’

    Did Jeremiah really know what was coming? If so, why did all of the religious conservative scholars soon after get it dead-wrong? Which mortals in the Bible knew what was going to happen with Jesus before it did?

    I think John played a little tongue in cheek in Revelation about this. Hearing about one thing and then seeing another.

    An even more unusual viewpoint is given by Cross Vision.
     
    #14 MartyF, Mar 6, 2019
  15. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Thanks Van
    QUOTE Van’s post (reply in red)

    "Can we assume that the biblical authors understood the messages they were communicating? TRUE or FALSE"

    1) Why should we assume one way or the other?
    If the authors did not understand what they spoke then the historical context of their message would be of no benefit when studying their message.

    2) Does the fact they fully understood all the implications (or not) alter our understanding of their words? (Note if we supply fully the answer may differ from if we supply "partially understood.")
    I’m very comfortable with the prophets not having a full knowledge of what they spoke. I understand God’s purpose in progressive revelation and the mystery of Christ’s coming as he did. Their eyes may have been clouded but their foresight was clear, the Messiah was coming.

    3) It seems to me that New Testament writers sometimes took the words of the OT and applied them differently than the audience at the time would be aware of.
    That’s a slightly different topic relating to how the NT authors appropriate the OT.

    4) Since the words were inspired, it is possible both an immediate application (which the writer understood) and a future application (applicable to Christ or end times) was beyond the understanding of the writer.
    Yes, much easier to look back that to look forward in time. What may have been written concerning a local, immediate problem had a fuller, more complete fulfillment when observed in the fullness of time.

    Rob
     
    #15 Deacon, Mar 6, 2019
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  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I agree completely will all your responses.
     
    #16 Van, Mar 6, 2019
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