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Salvation is something to continue in

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by rockytopva, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Salvation is something to continue in and no Calvinistic game...

    But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. - John 4:23-24

    Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; - John 8:31

    17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
    18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
    19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
    20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
    21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
    22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. - Romans 11

    If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; - Colossians 1:23


    I worked with three ladies in my factory making samples. These ladies were all Baptist, cheerful, decent, and I would not doubt if they were to tell me they were eternally saved, especially as I don't see it in their character. And this was also true of the old people in the Baptist church I was brought up in. They continued in the way they were brought up in.

    And then my generation came along.

    In the Baptist church I was brought up in we had a large youth group and all the adults thought of them as angels and good saved Christians. That was until someone busted them in one of their dope smoking parties. I also met a lady who is in her fifties as well as I. This lady was Baptist, single, never married, and I thought we were the perfect fit... But the more that woman talked... Come to find out that she sees nothing wrong with the party or sex scene. I finally, after enduring much talk on carnality, said to her, "You know I don't believe you can do those things and get to heaven." Almost immediately she replies, "Are you trying to threaten my salvation?" She thought because she got saved as a little one licenses her to do whatever she pleases.

    Of all the young people I know growing up not a one of them shows any fruit of Christianity. The matters of eternal significance are the furthest thing from their carnal mind. I believe that the Lord also takes issues with this...

    He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. - Revelation 3:5

    And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. - Mark 13:13

    This is my main gripe against Calvinism, and that is it gives people a false sense of eternal security. This is a race to be run, to be continued in, and not a destination at some point of doctrinal sense.
     
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  2. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    #2 rockytopva, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  3. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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  4. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Eternal security is not solely a Calvinistic thought. Many non-Calvinists hold to this belief.
     
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  5. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    Show me the fruits and I will buy into the eternal security.
     
  6. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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  7. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lust - Galatians 5
     
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  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    ?
     
  9. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Also Romans 8:38-39
     
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  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Either one is saved or not yet saved (Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Corinthians 13:5; 1 John 5:12). In the judgement some will come trusting in what they did (Mattherw 7:21-23) and were never saved.
     
  11. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    With respect,
    Loss of salvation is based on a misunderstanding of Scripture.
    Men who read it and get, " I have to do these things to gain and keep favor with God", also see that the evidences that are necessarily part of the believer's makeup, are "requirements" to be met.

    Faith is an evidence ( Hebrews 11:1 ), not a requirement that can be accomplished.
    Endurance ( Matthew 24:13 ) is an evidence, which is often seen as a requirement.
    Love of God is an evidence ( 1 John 4:19 ) that God first loved the believer, not a requirement that can be met by sin-loving, God-hating mankind in their natural state.

    Like some have posted, eternal life, which is a gift ( Romans 6:23 ) not a reward, cannot be lost for those who truly have it.
    God's word details this in many places, some of which have already been listed and which I will list some others:

    John 3:15-16.
    John 3:36.
    John 5:24
    John 6:37-40.
    John 10:26-29.
    John 11:25-26.

    That is just a few of the many "verses" that God's word has been divided into, that tell the believer that they are secure, because all of their trespasses were forgiven ( Colossians 2:13-14 ) on the cross for them.
    Sin has been dealt with in the believer.

    For the unbeliever, sin is a constant, ever-present wall that stands between God and them, and it will never go away.
    For those of us who have believed, it comforts us to know that He has taken our sins and washed them away, and that he remembers them no more ( Psalms 65:3, Isaiah 43:25, Jeremiah 31:34, Micah 7:18-19, Romans 11:27, Hebrews 8:12, Hebrews 10:17 ) .:)
     
    #11 Dave G, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
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  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    God knows those who are His.
     
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  13. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Willis,
    That is the list of things that those who are taught or believe that salvation can be lost, go to, to support it.
    Here are the passages that constitute what is considered by some as, "Mortal Sins":

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
    Galatians 5:19-20.
    Colossians 3:5-6.

    But they're missing or overlooking these:

    " And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." ( 1 Corinthians 6:11 ).

    " And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
    25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    " ( Galatians 5:24-25 ) <---- It's not a "what if" or a possibility...they that are Christ's HAVE crucified the flesh. Therefore, they do not walk in the things that unbelievers walk in ( habitually practice with no regard to whether or not God is offended by them ), or have pleasure in. They may stumble ( Hebrews 12:1 ) , but they are not locked into them as unbelievers are.

    " in the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
    8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
    9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
    10 and have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
    11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all."
    ( Colossians 3:7-11 ) <----- The product of regeneration, or being born again.

    " And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
    11 in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
    12 buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
    13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
    14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"
    ( Colossians 2:10-14 )


    Believers are bought with a price.
    We are to glorify God in our bodies and in our spirit, which belong to God ( 1 Corinthians 6:20 )
    Why?
    Because God has forgiven us for His mercy's sake, and He has not forgiven the unbeliever.

    To me, those who believe in loss of salvation are not taking every word of God into account.
    How do I know this?

    Because I corresponded with a man who showed me, for over 3 years, how and why he understands it that way from Scripture.
    And because for a time ( many years ago, now ), I also saw these passages ( to the neglect of others ) and they filled me with fear...until I remembered other passages that stated that God's forgiveness to His children is unconditional, and our efforts as men play no part in determining our destiny.

    God's mercy and grace does.:)
     
    #13 Dave G, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
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