What in the "World" does that word mean?

[Reformed1689]

There seems to be a sense from the anti-calvinist position that the Calvinists are wrong simply because the New Testament uses the word "World" often. I want to look at the book of John alone and propose quite a few different meanings of the word world. This is based on context. In short, the "word" world does not always mean "every individual person."

The word "World" can mean:

1. The entire universe or created order such as John 1:10
2. The physical earth. John 13:1
3. The world system. John 12:31
4. All unbelievers. John 7:7
5. A large group. John 12:19
6. The general public. John 7:4
7. Large groups both Jew and Gentile. John 1:29
8. The non-elect. John 17:9
9. The elect. John 3:17

 

[Reynolds]

There seems to be a sense from the anti-calvinist position that the Calvinists are wrong simply because the New Testament uses the word "World" often. I want to look at the book of John alone and propose quite a few different meanings of the word world. This is based on context. In short, the "word" world does not always mean "every individual person."

The word "World" can mean:

1. The entire universe or created order such as John 1:10
2. The physical earth. John 13:1
3. The world system. John 12:31
4. All unbelievers. John 7:7
5. A large group. John 12:19
6. The general public. John 7:4
7. Large groups both Jew and Gentile. John 1:29
8. The non-elect. John 17:9
9. The elect. John 3:17

If the World is the elect in John 3:17 it would be the same in v16.
I don't think you can prove "The world" is the elect in either verse. Assume the world is the elect; back to the foreknowledge argument.
If Calvinism, Arminianism, or any blended theory of the two could be proven, we would not have these discussions. Theologians have never, nor will they ever agree on it.

 

[Reformed1689]

If the World is the elect in John 3:17 it would be the same in v16.
I don't think you can prove "The world" is the elect in either verse.

Actually the word world is used in multiple senses in verse 17 alone. So are you saying that everyone is saved? Because if one of those worlds in verse 17 doesn't mean the elect you make everyone the elect or a meaning other than people in general.

 

[Reynolds]

Actually the word world is used in multiple senses in verse 17 alone. So are you saying that everyone is saved? Because if one of those worlds in verse 17 doesn't mean the elect you make everyone the elect or a meaning other than people in general.

It is just used in one sense; humanity.

 

[Reformed1689]

It is just used in one sense; humanity.

So the verse reads this way?

For God did not send his son into humanity to condemn humanity but that humanity might be saved through him.

I don't think so. Especially since the manuscript uses two different forms of Kosmos in that verse.

 

[Reynolds]

So the verse reads this way?

For God did not send his son into humanity to condemn humanity but that humanity might be saved through him.

I don't think so. Especially since the manuscript uses two different forms of Kosmos in that verse.

Really? Thayer lists all 3 as the same and lists humanity as one of the possible meanings.
It's κόσμος, right?

 

[Reformed1689]

Really? Thayer lists all 3 as the same and lists humanity as one of the possible meanings.
It's κόσμος, right?

The last world is κόσμος in the nominative the other two are κόσμον in the accusative.

 

[Reformed1689]

Really? Thayer lists all 3 as the same and lists humanity as one of the possible meanings.
It's κόσμος, right?

I also couldn't find the usage you are referring to in Thayer.

 

[Reynolds]

I also couldn't find the usage you are referring to in Thayer.

"5.the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family"

 

[Reynolds]

The last world is κόσμος in the nominative the other two are κόσμον in the accusative.

We have some different sources. What I have in front of me says all 3 are κόσμος.

 

[Reformed1689]

"5.the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family"

Sorry, I meant for the reference, not word meaning.

We have some different sources. What I have in front of me says all 3 are κόσμος.

Interesting, what Greek text are you using? I am looking at NA28.

 

[Reformed1689]

We have some different sources. What I have in front of me says all 3 are κόσμος.

I have even checked SBL and TR. All say the same thing. Both κόσμον as well as κόσμος

 

[Reynolds]

Jhn 3:17 - For G1063 God G2316sent G649 not G3756 his G846Son G5207 into G1519 the world G2889 to G2443condemn G2919 the world; G2889but G235 that G2443 the world G2889through G1223 him G846 might be saved. G4982

 

[Reformed1689]

Jhn 3:17 - For G1063 God G2316sent G649 not G3756 his G846Son G5207 into G1519 the world G2889 to G2443condemn G2919 the world; G2889but G235 that G2443 the world G2889through G1223 him G846 might be saved. G4982

Oh, you aren't actually looking at the Greek text then...

17 οὐ γὰρ ἀπέστειλεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν υἱὸν ⸆ εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἵνα κρίνῃ τὸν κόσμον, ἀλλʼ ἵνα p 300 σωθῇ ὁ κόσμος διʼ αὐτοῦ.

The G numbers only give you the lexical value not the actual word form.

 

[Reformed1689]

@Reynolds all that being said, it doesn't change the fact that context dictates the sense in which a word is used.

 

[Reynolds]

@Reynolds all that being said, it doesn't change the fact that context dictates the sense in which a word is used.

I looked it up in my interlinnear when I got home. You are correct on two different words. What meanings do you assign each of the three usages? Humanity is a possible definition for all 3 usages and contextually, it fits best.

 

[McCree79]

@Reynolds all that being said, it doesn't change the fact that context dictates the sense in which a word is used.

That is a better argument. The subject vs. direct object argument of κόσμος vs. κόσμον you used earlier was not a good one. Κόσμον belongs to the subject and verb combo, ἀπέστειλεν ὁ θεὸς.

That same Κόσμος then becomes the subject of the next thought. The form does not demand a difference meaning here. "The world" is refering to the same group/thing in all 3 instances.

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[McCree79]

I looked it up in my interlinnear when I got home. You are correct on two different words. What meanings do you assign each of the three usages? Humanity is a possible definition for all 3 usages and contextually, it fits best.

The BDAG believes the usage is "of all humanity, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love"

I would agree, as it seems 16-18 as a whole would support this conclusion.

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[McCree79]

There seems to be a sense from the anti-calvinist position that the Calvinists are wrong simply because the New Testament uses the word "World" often. I want to look at the book of John alone and propose quite a few different meanings of the word world. This is based on context. In short, the "word" world does not always mean "every individual person."

The word "World" can mean:

1. The entire universe or created order such as John 1:10
2. The physical earth. John 13:1
3. The world system. John 12:31
4. All unbelievers. John 7:7
5. A large group. John 12:19
6. The general public. John 7:4
7. Large groups both Jew and Gentile. John 1:29
8. The non-elect. John 17:9
9. The elect. John 3:17

Not sure how a how I feel about some of these.

Mostly due to your sentence, "The word "World" can mean:"

Κόσμος never means elect or non-elect. It can REFER to the elect or non-elect. I assume you give #9 as an example because the κόσμον not condemned is refering to the ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν (the one who believes in Him), who are not condemned in verse 18.

Κόσμος may be refering to the elect, but I would not say the word MEANS elect. I know I am splitting hairs, but I think it might cause confusion and unnecessary objections to you claim.

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[Reformed1689]

Not sure how a how I feel about some of these.

Mostly due to your sentence, "The word "World" can mean:"

Κόσμος never means elect or non-elect. It can REFER to the elect or non-elect. I assume you give #9 as an example because the κόσμον not condemned is refering to the ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν (the one who believes in Him), who are not condemned in verse 18.

Κόσμος may be refering to the elect, but I would not say the word MEANS elect. I know I am splitting hairs, but I think it might cause confusion and unnecessary objections to you claim.

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Yes, that is what I am saying. And yes, splitting hairs, but in this case (and given some of the arguments on this board) it was a good hair to split.