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Is it possible to be Southern Baptist and...
- Thread starter Rebel1
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Lodic
Well-Known Member
Is OSAS anywhere in the official statement of beliefs? Is there an official SBC statement of beliefs? Anyway, there are a few people in my "connection group" at the SBC church that definitely do not believe in OSAS. For myself, I call myself a Baptist because I attend a Baptist church. However, I have several "non-Baptist" views which make for some lively conversations from time to time.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
No. From the Baptist Faith and Message:
V. God's Purpose of Grace
Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility.
All true believers endure to the end. Those whom God has accepted in Christ, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never fall away from the state of grace, but shall persevere to the end. Believers may fall into sin through neglect and temptation, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, and bring reproach on the cause of Christ and temporal judgments on themselves; yet they shall be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.
Genesis 12:1-3; Exodus 19:5-8; 1 Samuel 8:4-7,19-22; Isaiah 5:1-7; Jeremiah 31:31ff.; Matthew 16:18-19; 21:28-45; 24:22,31; 25:34; Luke 1:68-79; 2:29-32; 19:41-44; 24:44-48; John 1:12-14; 3:16; 5:24; 6:44-45,65; 10:27-29; 15:16; 17:6,12,17-18; Acts 20:32; Romans 5:9-10; 8:28-39; 10:12-15; 11:5-7,26-36; 1 Corinthians 1:1-2; 15:24-28; Ephesians 1:4-23; 2:1-10; 3:1-11; Colossians 1:12-14; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14; 2 Timothy 1:12; 2:10,19; Hebrews 11:39–12:2; James 1:12; 1 Peter 1:2-5,13; 2:4-10; 1 John 1:7-9; 2:19; 3:2.
Thanks, Lodic. May I ask what those "non-Baptist" beliefs are?
Oh, so the BF&M has been elevated to a required creed. Not very "Baptist", is it?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
If you don't believe the Southern Baptist Statement of Faith are you really Southern Baptist? Also, how is requiring creeds not Baptist? Ever heard of the London Confession?
You seem...defensive.
Anyways, as far as it being required, convention officers and seminary faculty/staff are the only ones that are really required to affirm it, iirc.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Correct, local churches set their own requirements for membership. And it is a little ambiguous as to whether the local church itself must affirm it.
Lodic
Well-Known Member
Sure, Rebel1. My main "non-Baptist" belief is that I am a Partial Preterist. I don't believe in the Rapture, nor that we are in the "End Times". I don't believe in OSAS. I lean heavily toward Reformed Theology, but I'm not quite sure about pre-destination. I have no problem with drinking or gambling, as long as they are in moderation.
On that note, I just remembered that I gotta run. Good Lord willing and the creek don't rise, I'll catch you on Monday.
I believe a lot of it, probably most of it. Baptists have traditionally had confessions of faith but have not considered such confessions as creeds. Do you know the difference?
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
They actually aren't really different. Essentially a creed is a basic overview while a confession is in-depth.
That being said, I say again, if you do not agree with the SBC Confession of Faith then are you really SBC in anything other than name only?
How do the "not sure about OSAS" folks interpret being indwelt forever?
John 14:15-16 (NET) “If you love me, you will obey my commandments. I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you forever –
Hopefully its not "we transferred ourselves into Christ, then sealed ourselves in Christ, then broke the seal, and transferred ourselves back into the realm of darkness." Not very likely
John 14:15-16 (NET) “If you love me, you will obey my commandments. I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you forever –
Hopefully its not "we transferred ourselves into Christ, then sealed ourselves in Christ, then broke the seal, and transferred ourselves back into the realm of darkness." Not very likely
How do the "not sure about OSAS" folks interpret being indwelt forever?
John 14:15-16 (NET) “If you love me, you will obey my commandments. I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you forever –
Hopefully its not "we transferred ourselves into Christ, then sealed ourselves in Christ, then broke the seal, and transferred ourselves back into the realm of darkness." Not very likely
I firmly believe in OSAS but even though I am Heaven bound I'm still in the Lords hands and if I don't behave, he can still give me a good occasional butt whipping before I get there... Brother Glen
Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
If being a member of a Southern Baptist church is what makes one "Southern Baptist," then yes. There are local Southern Baptist churches who allow people who hold falling from grace/deny OSAS to remain members in good standing. That said, I am not aware of any Southern Baptist churches that publicly profess to believe in falling from grace (which certainly doesn't mean there aren't any).
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So you came back and decided to keep this username instead of changing to another one like you usually do. You could at least pick issues that you have not begged support for before.
Those who drafted the 2000 BF&Mess. assured us that it was NOT "a creed", and NOT "a binding or governing document on Southern Baptist churches and their members"!
Baptist Press June 14, 2000
Baptist Press June 14, 2000
Baptist Press June 14, 2000
Baptist Press June 14, 2000
I don't think you know what it means to be Baptist. I believe that is also true of more Southern Baptists today than it was in the days of E.Y. Mullins and Herschel Hobbs.
You, as usual, don't know what you're talking about. You have no fruit of the Spirit; you can't even respond to the topic of the thread. Instead, you lead off with an insult, an accusation. I don't need to tell you what you are. Everyone can see it.
I guess davidtaylorjr wasn't aware of this, or what it means to be a Baptist. I would suggest a history lesson.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Have you not read anything I have written in this thread? Perhaps you are the one who needs a history lesson on this thread.
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