The fundamental identity of God.

[37818]

Part 1.
Traditional theology fails in not using God's fundamental self evident idenitity.

God's identity deduced.
1) There was never nothingness.
2) Therefore there has always been an existence. The uncaused existence.
3) Uncaused existence has no God.
4) Therefore unless God is the uncaused existence, there is no God.
5) Therefore the fundamental identity of God is being the Uncaused Existence.

Acts of the Apostles 17:28; Romans 1:18-20; Genesis 1:1; Exodus 3:14-15; Proverbs 21:30.

 

[MartyF]

I'll just stick with Genesis.

 

[37818]

I'll just stick with Genesis.

Genesis 1:1, presumes God. That is fundamental.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Part 1.
Traditional theology fails in not using God's fundamental self evident idenitity.

God's identity deduced.
1) There was never nothingness.
2) Therefore there has always been an existence. The uncaused existence.
3) Uncaused existence has no God.
4) Therefore unless God is the uncaused existence, there is no God.
5) Therefore the fundamental identity of God is being the Uncaused Existence.

Acts of the Apostles 17:28; Romans 1:18-20; Genesis 1:1; Exodus 3:14-15; Proverbs 21:30.

The fundamental identity of God, besides merely always existent (I AM), is really, in His eternal character, in other words:

1Jn_4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1Jn_4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Gal_5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

So, it is not enough to merely demonstrate that God is 'uncaused existence'.

God is also "life", "living":

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Joh_1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Premise 1. agreed.
Premise 2. agreed.
Premise 3. disagree. (The Son, has His Father (God)) The break down here is in the definition (scripturally of JEHOVAH Elohiym; 3 Persons/Beings (Father, Son and Holy Ghost/Spirit) working together in at-one-ment, one in character, not in person)

Hence Jesus said:

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Psa_22:1 To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Mat_27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mar_15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

It is written:

Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Gen_19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

etc.

This brings us to another aspect, or eternal characteristic, or relationship, of JEHOVAH Elohiym, in that Family has always existed, which ties right back into 1 John 4:8,16. This again, speaks of Creator, since that which is family, is love, is life, desires to have more life and so multiplies (creation).

So, again, while you have a good start, the middle gets flubbed, because you have not kept sight on the character and relationship of the 'uncaused existence'.

So, I would not conclude that the 'fundamental identity' is merely 'existence', or simply being 'uncaused', I think it is much deeper than that, though I would not disagree in entirety about JEHOVAH Elohiym as 'uncaused existence', since "I AM" is self-declared unto us.

 

[37818]

Premise 3. disagree. (The Son, has His Father (God)) The break down here is in the definition (scripturally of JEHOVAH Elohiym; 3 Persons/Beings (Father, Son and Holy Ghost/Spirit) working together in at-one-ment, one in character, not in person)

The Son is of God, and as of God has a God. But being the One and the Same God has no God. "With God" has a God. But "was God" has no God. John 1:1-2. Isaiah 44:6, ". . . ; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. . . ." Revelation 22:13, ". . . I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. . . ." Revelation 1:17-18, ". . .I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, . . ."

 

[Alofa Atu]

The Son is of God, and as of God has a God. But being the One and the Same God has no God. "With God" has a God. But "was God" has no God. John 1:1-2. Isaiah 44:6, ". . . ; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. . . ." Revelation 22:13, ". . . I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. . . ." Revelation 1:17-18, ". . .I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, . . ."

You have confused "God" with "Godhead".

The Son is equal with the Father in nature, not in position.

Type:

Gen_41:40 Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.

Reality:

1Co_11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1Co_15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Even as it was from eternity. The Son was always in the position of submission to the will of the Father (Psalms 40:8; Proverbs 8, etc)

Therefore, the Son (always was Christ; Luk 2:11) always had God His Father. The Father is in authority over the Son, and the Son in submission to the Father, though equal in nature (eternal Deity).

Therefore, again your premise 3 is still in error (unless you claim to teach what Catholicism teaches, which then I can see where your error stems from).

 

[37818]

You have confused "God" with "Godhead".

False accusation.

The Son is equal with the Father in nature, not in position.

The Son has always had two natures. And because of that has a different position than the Father.

Now do you know the difference between Uncaused Existence and Uncaused Cause? They are two different entites. Uncaused Existence is not contingent on anything. Uncaused Cause is contengent on Uncaused Existence. All causes are finite and temporal. What is uncaused is the Uncaused Existence. So the Uncause Cause has two natures. Being both Uncaused Existence and being the Uncaused Cause. And is identified as the Son (John 1:3; John 1:14). In the incarnation was a change being "with God," John 1:2. Not a change being God (John 1:1; John 1:9-10; Hebrews 1:3).

 

[Alofa Atu]

The Son has always had two natures.

That is a heresy.

Phil. 2:5-8. The Son did not "always" have "two natures", otherwise, He could never have 'took upon him the form of a servant', to be 'made in the likeness of men'. There is now in the eternity that which never existed before, the resurrected immortalized glorified flesh of men, the God/man - Christ Jesus. Before, He was only 'in the form of God', until it was said, 'Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.', 'Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:'

 

[37818]

That is a heresy.

Phil. 2:5-8. The Son did not "always" have "two natures", otherwise, He could never have 'took upon him the form of a servant', to be 'made in the likeness of men'. There is now in the eternity that which never existed before, the resurrected immortalized glorified flesh of men, the God/man - Christ Jesus. Before, He was only 'in the form of God', until it was said, 'Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.', 'Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:'

No, it is Biblical that the Word was "with God," being someone other than God. And "was God." John 1:1-2. He being the sole cause of all caused things, John 1:3.

Now He changed, He was made flesh, John 1:14. God does not change. And He Himself is the sole cause of making Himself flesh, John 1:3. There is none else. He changed how He was "with God" not that He "was God." Again, God does not change.