How old is mankind, let's see if we can get a rough date.

[Alofa Atu]

The next (third) Kingdom to follow (the second, Medo-Persia) was [Greecia]: ...

and so the Fourth Kingdom was Rome:

Dan. 2:33

Symbol:

“His legs of iron, ...”

Identification/interpretation:

Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Which parallels Dan. 7:

Dan. 7:7

Symbol:

“ After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it ...”

Identification/interpretation:

Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Which parallels Dan. 8:

Symbol:

Dan 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

Identification/interpretation:

Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, ...

Which parallels Dan. 11:

Dan 11:20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

Who was the raiser of taxes in the NT after Greece, when the transgression of the Jews came to the full (Mat. 23:32)? What was the occupation of Matthew of the Publicans, whose inscription was upon the coin, and why did Joseph and Mary have to travel?

"destroyed" means "broken to pieces", and Rome was not conquered by external forces, but broke apart from within (thus "neither in anger, nor in battle"), and "few days" is contexual to the timeframe given unto it (examples upon request).

Just as Moses had said:

Deu 28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.

Deu 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

Deu 28:50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:

Deu 28:51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.

Deu 28:52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

Deu 28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:

Deu 28:54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:

Deu 28:55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.

Deu 28:56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,

Deu 28:57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

Just as Jesus had said:

Mat_24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Luk_17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Thus:

Daniel 2:

1. Gold = Babylon
2. Silver = Medo-Persia
3. Brass = Greece/Javan
4. Iron = Rome

Daniel 7:

1. Lion = Babylon
2. Bear = Medo-Persia (conquered 3, raised up)
3. Leopard = Greece/Javan (divided into four, wings to fly)
4. Terrible Beast = Rome

Daniel 8:

1. (Babylon not in the vision)
2. Ram = Medo-Persia (conquered 3, raised up)
3. He-Goat = Greece/Javan (divided into four, touched not the ground)
4. Little Horn = Rome

Daniel 10:

1. Babylon
2. Medo-Persia (Darius/Cyrus)
3. Greece
4. (Rome not mentioned)

Daniel 11:

1. (Babylon not in Daniel 11, as it parallels 8)
2. Medo-Persia
3. Greece (divided)
4. Rome (vs 20)

Do we agree thus far, yes or no?

 

[Alofa Atu]

and so the Fourth Kingdom was Rome [which was to be divided] ...

Going back to Babylon's end, and the beginning of Medo-Persia with Cyrus II:

Continuing with the successors to Cyrus II the great:

Cyrus II (537/536 BC - 530 BC) (AM 3691/2 - AM 3697)

Cambyses II [Cyrus II son] the “Ahasuerus” of Ezra 4:6 [not the Ahasuerus, the 'father' of Darius the Mede of Daniel 9:1, and neither the Ahasuerus of Esther [Xerxes I, The Great], “...which reigned, from India even unto Ethiopia, [over] an hundred and seven and twenty provinces...”] see also "Prophets and Kings", Page 572-572 [342-343]; see also Daniel 11:2 [the 1st of the 4 kings that had “yet” to Reign in Persia after Cyrus II The Great] and see also See also Ezra 4:5 “...all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius king of Persia.” for context and period of between...

He Reigned 530 BC – 522 BC [Babylon] (AM 3697 - AM 3705) reigned about 7 1/2 years (rounded to 8)
He Reigned 525 BC – 522 BC [Egypt]

False Smerdis [aka Pseudo Bardiya [or Gaumata the Usurper/sorceror] aka [false] “Artaxerxes” of Ezra 4:7-23 [4:7,8,23]] - 522 BC (AM 3705), about 6 months to 1 year or so, before being killed, found as an impostor - [Haggai [the LORD's Messenger] and Zechariah [the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the Prophet] the Prophets begin during the reign of this Usurper; Ezra 5:1, 6:14] Prophets and Kings Page 573 [343] [“...During the reign of Cambyses the work on the temple progressed slowly. And during the reign of the false Smerdis (called Artaxerxes in Ezra 4:7) the Samaritans induced the unscrupulous impostor to issue a decree forbidding the Jews to rebuild their temple and city. ...” [Prophets and Kings, page 572-573]]; see also Daniel 11:2 [the 2nd of the 4 kings that had “yet” to Reign in Persia after Cyrus II The Great] and Ezra 4:7; “Artaxerxes” [reigned in between Cyrus II The Great and Darius I Hystaspes The Persian The Great, see Ezra 4:5 “...all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius king of Persia.” for the two 'bookend' kings] and see Ezra 4:7-24 [[false] Artaxerxes decree to cease building, which went against the Law of the Medes/Persians which changes not] and see Ezra 6:8-12 [Darius I Hystaspes The Persian The Great, after eliminating False Smerdis, has to re-issue the Decree of Cyrus II]

Darius I The Persian, [of] Hystaspes, The Great - 522 BC – 486 BC (AM 3705 - AM 3741) [Ezra 4:5,24, 5:5; Haggai 1:1; Zechariah 1:1; wife was Atossa [daughter of Cyrus II, The Great] [not to be confused with Darius The Mede of Daniel]] [Haggai [the LORD's Messenger] and Zechariah [the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the Prophet] the Prophets continue during the reign of this King; Haggai 1:1 [even unto the 2nd year; Haggai 1:15]; Zechariah 1:1 [even unto the 4th year; Zechariah 7:1]; etc]; see also Daniel 11:2 [the 3rd of the 4 kings that had “yet” to Reign in Persia after Cyrus II The Great]

Xerxes I, The Great - 486 BC - 465 BC (AM 3741 - AM 3762) [aka; Persian: Ḫšayāršā; Hebrew: 'Achashverowsh; Bible: “Ahasuerus” [“I will be silent and poor”, or “lion-king” [Gesenius's Lexicon]] [son of Darius I Hystaspes The Persian The Great; aka "Ahasuerus" [Husband] of Esther [Hadassah] of 127 Provinces; Esther 1:1] of Esther 1:1-2,9,10,15,16,17,19, 2:1,12,16,21, 3:1,7,8,12, 6:2, 7:5, 8:1,7,10,12, 9:2,20,30, 10:1,3 [not to be confused with the father of Darius the Mede in Daniel 9:1], but rather, “Now it came to pass in the days of Ahasuerus, (this [is] Ahasuerus which reigned, from India even unto Ethiopia, [over] an hundred and seven and twenty provinces” Esther 1:1; Queen was Vashti, and then Queen was [Hadassah] Esther [whose uncle was Mordecai the Jew]; Xerxes was the son of Darius The Persian and Atossa] [Esther, the Book of happens during the reign of this King], [“...Xerxes,—the Ahasuerus of the book of Esther...” [Prophets and Kings, page 598.2]] [“...Darius Hystaspes, under whose reign the Jews had been shown marked favor, was succeeded by Xerxes the Great. ...” [Prophets and Kings, page 600.1]]; see also Daniel 11:2 [the 4th of the 4 kings that had “yet” to Reign in Persia after Cyrus II The Great]; [“...the fourth shall be far richer than [they] all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.”]

Artaxerxes I Longimanus/Macrocheir, The Great [Artaxerxes was the son of Xerxes I and his wife Amestris] - 465 BC – 424 BC (AM 3762 - AM 3803); his 7th year of reign is astronomically, historically, established at 457 BC (circa AM 3769); [Ezra [the scribe] in the first years at least, while Nehemiah [the cupbearer] was in the latter years at least, 20th year] [“...But it was not until several years later, in the seventh year of Artaxerxes I, the successor of Xerxes the Great, that any considerable number returned to Jerusalem, under Ezra. ...” [Prophets and Kings, page 605.3]] [“...The decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus for the restoring and building of Jerusalem, the third issued since the close of the seventy years’ captivity, is remarkable for its expressions regarding the God of heaven, for its recognition of the attainments of Ezra, and for the liberality of the grants made to the remnant people of God. Artaxerxes refers to Ezra as “the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the Lord, and of His statutes to Israel;” “a scribe of the law of the God of heaven.” The king united with his counselors in offering freely “unto the God of Israel, whose habitation is in Jerusalem;” and in addition he made provision for meeting many heavy expenses by ordering that they be paid “out of the king’s treasure house.” Verses 11, 12, 15, 20. ...” [Prophets and Kings; page 610.1]]

Xerxes II [son of Artaxerxes I Longimanus] - Reigned 424 BC (AM 3803) [reigned 45 days]

He was killed by brother Sogdianus.

Sogdianus [son of Artaxerxes I Longimanus] - Reigned 424 BC – 423 BC (AM 3803 - AM 3804) [reigned 6 months 15 days]

He was killed by Arbarios, commander of the calvary.

Darius II [son of Artaxerxes I Longimanus; aka “Ochus” and aka “Nothos”] - Reigned 423 BC – 405 BC (AM 3804 - AM 3822); see Nehemiah 12:12

Artaxerxes II Mnemon [son of Darius II of Persia] - Reigned 405 BC – 359/8 BC (AM 3822 - AM 3868/9)

Artaxerxes III Of Persia [son of Artaxerxes II Mnemon] - Lived ca. 425 BC – 338 BC; Reigned 359/8 BC – 338 BC (AM 3868/9 - AM 3889)

Artaxerxes IV Arses Of Persia [son of Artaxerxes III Of Persia] - Reigned 338 BC – 336 BC (AM 3889 - AM 3891)

Darius III Codomannus [aka “Artashata”] - Reigned 336 BC – 330 BC (AM 3891 - AM 3897)

He was defeated by Alexander The III The Great, and thus really ended the Silver Medo/Perisan reign...

Artaxerxes V [aka “Bessus”] - Reigned 330 BC (AM 3897) [lived a short rebellion, dies in 329 BC]

 

[Alofa Atu]

Going back to Babylon's end, and the beginning of Medo-Persia with Cyrus II:

Continuing with the successors to Cyrus II the great:

Cyrus II (537/536 BC - 530 BC) (AM 3691/2 - AM 3697)

...

Darius III Codomannus [aka “Artashata”] - Reigned 336 BC – 330 BC (AM 3891 - AM 3897)

He was defeated by Alexander The III The Great, and thus really ended the Silver Medo/Perisan reign...

Artaxerxes V [aka “Bessus”] - Reigned 330 BC (AM 3897) [lived a short rebellion, dies in 329 BC]

After the Silver Persian Kingdom, came the Brass/Bronze Greek [Greecian/Macedonian] Kingdom:

Which The Brass/Bronze Greek Empire truly began with:

Alexander III The Great Of Macedon [King of the West] [son of Phillip II Of Macedon] - Lived 356 BC – 323 BC; see Daniel 8:5,8,21; 11:3-4
Reigned 336 BC – 323 BC [Macedon]
Reigned 332 BC – 323 BC [Egypt]
Reigned 330 BC – 323 BC (AM 3897 - AM 3904) [Persia]

...temporarily succeeded by his infant son, Alexander IV Aegus [Lived 329 BC – 309 BC; Reigned 323 BC – 309 BC] and half-brother Phillip III of Macedon [aka "Arrhidaeus"] [Lived ca. 359 BC – 317 BC; Reigned 323 BC – 317 BC], both were killed.

...later after the deaths of Alexanders' son and half-brother, and the wars of the 12 Major or so Diadochi, and the division of Greece into 4 Heads, they battled and battled until only two major were really left [Lysimachus and Cassander being dropped out], 4 Heads of the Leopard Daniel 7, 4 Horns of the He-Goat of Daniel 8

[1] Ptolemy I Soter I [Saviour; aka Ptolemy Lagides] King Of The South; Lived 367 BC – 283 BC; Reigned 323 BC – 283 BC (AM 3904 - AM 3944) [Egypt; Kingdom of the South]

[2] Lysimachus [son of Agathocles] - Lived 360 BC – 281 BC; Reigned 306 BC – 281 BC [Thrace]

[3] Cassander [son of Antipater] - Lived 350 BC – 297 BC; Reigned 305 BC – 297 BC [Macedon]

[4] Seleucus I Nicator [Victor] [son of Antiochus & Laodice] King of the North - Lived 358 BC – 281 BC; Reigned 305 BC – 281 BC (AM 3922 - AM 3946) [Coele-Syria; Babylon, Kingdom of the North]

Lysimachus and those after him and Cassander and those after him, grew weaker, and thus The Two Heads/Horns that were left are these [in short]:

Ptolemy [King of the South, that is to the South of Jerusalem – Egypt]

[1] Ptolemy I Soter I 323 – 282 BC (AM 3904 - AM 3944) [first satrap/prince, then King]

[2] Ptolemy II Philadelphus 282 – 246 BC (AM 3944 - AM 3980)

[3] Ptolemy III Euergetes 246 – 222 BC (AM 3980 - AM 4004)

[4] Ptolemy IV Philopator 222 – 205/4 BC (AM 4004 - AM 4021/2)

[5] Ptolemy V Epiphanes 205/4 – 180 BC (Am 4021/2 - AM 4046)

[6] Ptolemy VI Philometor 180 – 145 BC (AM 4046 - AM 4081)

Seleucus/Antiochus [King of the North, that is to the North of Jerusalem – Babylon [Syria]]

[1] Seleucus I Nicator [Victor] 358 – 281 BC (AM 3922 - AM 3946)

[2] Antiochus I Soter [skipped, and goes straight to Antiochus II Theos] 281 – 261 BC (AM 3946 - AM 3966) [born 286 BC]

[3] Antiochus II Theos [God] 261 – 246 BC (AM 3966 - AM 3981)

[4] Seleucus II Callinicus [Beautiful Victor] or aka Pogon [Bearded] 246 – 225 BC (AM 3981 - AM 4002)

[5] Seleucus III Soter Ceraunus [Saviour Thunder] 225 – 223 BC (AM 4002 - AM 4004) [born 243 BC]

[6] Antiochus III The Great 222 – 187 BC (AM 4004 - AM 4039) [born 241 BC]

...and there really ended the rule of Brass/Bronze Greece, as Pagan Rome came up into power, and threw back Antiochus III The Great, which died attempting a robbery of a temple, and had even his son as hostage for a time ...

...other seleucids did come, but their power was weak, and Rome grew stronger ...

 

[Alofa Atu]

After the Silver Persian Kingdom, came the Brass/Bronze Greek [Greecian/Macedonian] Kingdom: ...

[6] Antiochus III The Great 222 – 187 BC (AM 4004 - AM 4039) [born 241 BC]

...and there really ended the rule of Brass/Bronze Greece, as Pagan Rome came up into power, and threw back Antiochus III The Great, which died attempting a robbery of a temple, and had even his son as hostage for a time ...

...other seleucids did come, but their power was weak, and Rome grew stronger ...

In the Greecian portion of Daniel 11:4,5-19, let us look at a transitioning passage, namely Daniel 11:14 more closely -

Daniel 11:14 - And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall.

Daniel 11:14 - And in those times there shall many [The King Of The North Antiochus III The Great; and Philip V Of Macedon; and Regents of Egypt and Egyptians in revolt and Jews [joining with Antiochus III The Great]] stand up against the king of the south [The King Of The South [5] Ptolemy V Epiphanes, a young child of the age of 5; this is in the years 205/4 – 199/8 BC]: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish [not "come to an end" [Psalms 7:9 KJB], not "take away" [Hebrews 10:9 KJB], not "destroy" [Proverbs 15:25 KJB], but rather, "to make" [Isaiah 62:7], "build up" [Psalms 89:4 KJB], "built up forever" [Psalms 89:2 KJB]] the vision [Daniel 8:1,2,13,15,17,26, 9:21,24, 10:14, 11:14 KJB]; but they shall fall.

Who are “thy people” according to scripture [KJB]?

The "thy people" in Daniel are the Jews/Israel, see Daniel 9:15,16,19,24, 10:14, 12:1, as seen also in Jeremiah, Ezekiel, etc.

Who then are “the robbers of thy people” according to scripture [KJB]??? It is not the Romans [Daniel 2:20, 7:23 KJB] as so often thought, because they knew nothing of the prophecies of Daniel, and in no way exalted themselves to see the vision of Daniel established, that is to fulfill it. Rather, they are “the robbers” which were among, part of, Israel. Search the Bible [KJB], and every time that the phrase “... of thy people” is used, in conjunction with another phrase, it refers to someone among the Jews, as for instance: "ruler of thy people" [Exodus 22:28 KJB], "poor of thy people" [Exodus 23:11 KJB], "children of thy people" [Leviticus 19:18], "thy servant is in the midst of thy people" [1 Kings 3:8 KJB], "supplication of thy servant, and of thy people" [1 Kings 8:30 KJB], "forgive the sin of thy people Israel" [1 Kings 8:34 KJB] and etc.

 

[Alofa Atu]

...Who then are “the robbers of thy people” according to scripture [KJB]??? It is not the Romans [Daniel 2:20, 7:23 KJB] ...

What then, does the word “the robbers” mean according to scripture [KJB]? It means the “robbers”, the “thieves” [robbing God of the return of righteousness], the false messiahs, etc, among the people, the breakers of the covenant, the sinners and rebellious sons among the people, like Theudas, like Judas of Galilee, Barabbas, the zealots, the pharisees, the sadducees, corrupt Levites, priests and high priests, etc, that all attempted to fulfill in their own way, the vision of Daniel. See:

Daniel 8:23 - And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

Psalms 17:4 - Concerning the works of men, by the word of thy lips I have kept [me from] the paths of the destroyer6530.

Isaiah 35:9 - No lion shall be there, nor [any] ravenous6530 beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk [there]:

Jeremiah 7:11 - Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers6530 in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen [it], saith the LORD.

Matthew 21:13 - And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Mark 11:17 - And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Luke 19:46 - Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Isaiah 1:23 - Thy princes [are] rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.

John 10:1 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber3027.

John 10:8 - All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

John 10:10 - The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.

John 18:40 - Then cried they all again, saying , Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber3027.

Hosea 7:1 - When I would have healed Israel, then the iniquity of Ephraim was discovered, and the wickedness of Samaria: for they commit falsehood; and the thief cometh in, [and] the troop of robbers spoileth without.

Ezekiel 7:22 - My face will I turn also from them, and they shall pollute my secret [place]: for the robbers6530 shall enter into it, and defile it.

Ezekiel 18:10 - If he beget a son [that is] a robber6530, a shedder of blood, and [that] doeth the like to [any] one of these [things],

Hosea 4:2 - By swearing , and lying , and killing , and stealing , and committing adultery , they break out6555 , and blood toucheth blood.

Acts 21:38 - Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?

Isaiah 1:2 - Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. [rebellious sons, covenant breakers, transgressors, thus sinners]

Acts 5:36 - For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.

Acts 5:37 - After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, [even] as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.

They could not usher in everlasting righteousness, and could not stand [righteous], but they all fell [sin, sinned].

Ecclesiastes 7:29 - Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

Psalms 5:10 - Destroy thou them, O God; let them fall by their own counsels; cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions; for they have rebelled against thee.

Psalms 20:8 - They are brought down and fallen: but we are risen, and stand upright.

Psalms 36:12 - There are the workers of iniquity fallen: they are cast down, and shall not be able to rise.

Proverbs 10:8 - The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.

Proverbs 11:5 - The righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way: but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness.

Proverbs 11:14 - Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Proverbs 11:28 - He that trusteth in his riches shall fall: but the righteous shall flourish as a branch.

Proverbs 16:18 - Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Hosea 4:14 - I will not punish your daughters when they commit whoredom, nor your spouses when they commit adultery: for themselves are separated with whores, and they sacrifice with harlots: therefore the people that doth not understand shall fall.

Hosea 5:5 - And the pride of Israel doth testify to his face: therefore shall Israel and Ephraim fall in their iniquity; Judah also shall fall with them.

Hosea 14:1 - O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.

Isaiah 8:15 - And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Luke 2:34 - And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

1 Corinthians 10:12 - Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 3:6 - Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

1 Timothy 3:7 - Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Only Christ Jesus could fulfill the vision of Daniel.

False Prophets / Messiahs arise, and false claimants as Israel's Political Deliverer / Saviour.

- Theudas, “boasting himself to be somebody” [Acts 5:36]

- Judas of Galilee [Acts 5:37]

- Zealots [Luke 6:15; Acts 1:13]

- the Egyptian [Acts 21:38]

- Barabbas [Matthew 27:16,17,20,21,26; Mark 15:11,15; Luke 23:18; John 18:40]

- Jews, like Pharisees, Sadducees, and Leaders like Annas and Caiaphas, etc. [Matthew 21:13; Mark 11:17; Luke 19:46; John 8:44]

Daniel 8:23, 11:14; Psalms 17:4; Isaiah 1:2,23, 10:2, 35:9; Jeremiah 7:11; Ezekiel 7:22, 18:10; Hosea 4:2, 7:1; Malachi 3:8,9; Matthew 21:13, 23:14,28-33; Mark 7:9-13, 11:17, 12:40; Luke 19:46, 20:47; John 10:1,8,10, 18:40; Acts 5:36,37, 21:38

Fall:

Ecclesiastes 7:29; Psalms 5:10, 20:8, 36:12; Proverbs 10:8, 11:5,14,28, 16:18; Hosea 4:14, 5:5, 14:1; Isaiah 8:15; Luke 2:34; 1 Corinthians 10:12; Galatians 5:4; 1 Timothy 3:6,7

Matthew 23:32 - “Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.”

 

[Alofa Atu]

... False Prophets / Messiahs arise, and false claimants as Israel's Political Deliverer / Saviour. ...

Matthew 23:32 - “Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.”

Let us now consider Daniel 11:20 -

Daniel 11:20 - Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

What does “stand up in his estate” mean according to the scripture [KJB]? It means to come to the ruling position or office and execute judgment, and can even mean the close of probation:

Acts 4:26 - The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

Job 34:24 - He shall break in pieces mighty men without number, and set others in their stead.

Psalms 106:30 - Then stood up Phinehas, and executed judgment: and so the plague was stayed.

Daniel 12:1 - And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Luke 13:25 - When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Acts 7:55 - But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Acts 7:56 - And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Genesis 40:13 - Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thine head, and restore thee unto thy place: and thou shalt deliver Pharaoh's cup into his hand, after the former manner when thou wast his butler.

Genesis 41:13 - And it came to pass, as he interpreted to us, so it was; me he restored unto mine office, and him he hanged.

Jude 1:6 - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

What is the “glory of the kingdom”? It is Jerusalem in Judaea, and later we shall see it also represents the Church itself.

Isaiah 4:2 - In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth [shall be] excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.

Jeremiah 3:19 - But I said , How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said , Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.

Ezekiel 7:2 - Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land.

Ezekiel 7:20 - As for the beauty of his ornament, he set it in majesty: but they made the images of their abominations [and] of their detestable things therein: therefore have I set it far from them.

Ezekiel 20:6 - In the day [that] I lifted up mine hand unto them, to bring them forth of the land of Egypt into a land that I had espied for them, flowing with milk and honey, which [is] the glory of all lands.

Ezekiel 20:15 - Yet also I lifted up my hand unto them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given [them], flowing with milk and honey, which [is] the glory of all lands;

Ezekiel 20:38 - And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.

Ezekiel 20:40 - For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of your oblations, with all your holy things.

Ezekiel 20:42 - And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I shall bring you into the land of Israel, into the country [for] the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to your fathers.

Daniel 8:9 - And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great , toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant [land].

Daniel 11:16 - But he that cometh against him shall do according to his own will, and none shall stand before him: and he shall stand in the glorious land, which by his hand shall be consumed.

Daniel 11:45 - And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Thus Daniel 11:20, and the “tax” in the glory of the Kingdom [Jerusalem] was by Pagan Rome. See Joseph and Mary and the Roman tax, Matthew the publican, Zacchaeus the publican, and many publicans in the days of “Caesar”, thus give unto Caesar what is Caesar's:

Matthew 22:17 - Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

Matthew 22:18 - But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

Matthew 22:19 - Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

Matthew 22:20 - And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

Matthew 22:21 - They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Mark 12:14 - And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?

Mark 12:16 - And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.

Mark 12:17 - And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Mark 2:14 - And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.

Luke 2:1 - And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

Luke 2:3 - And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

Luke 2:5 - To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

Luke 5:27 - And after these things he went forth, and saw a publican, named Levi, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he said unto him, Follow me.

Luke 5:29 - And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.

Luke 19:2 - And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.

Luke 20:22 - Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?

Luke 20:24 - Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.

Luke 20:25 - And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

Luke 23:2 - And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.

Matthew 10:3 - Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

Romans 13:7 - Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

What does “within few days” mean in the context of being “destroyed”, or broken to pieces [ie. Rome would be broken into ten portions]? This one is quite interesting, as it has various definitions in scripture [KJB]:

Psalms 109:8 - Let his days be few; and let another take his office.

Proverbs 6:15 - Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Let us now consider Daniel 11:20 -

Daniel 11:20 - Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

What does “stand up in his estate” mean according to the scripture [KJB]? It means to come to the ruling position or office and execute judgment, and can even mean the close of probation: ...

Thus Daniel 11:20, and the “tax” in the glory of the Kingdom [Jerusalem] was by Pagan Rome. See Joseph and Mary and the Roman tax, Matthew the publican, Zacchaeus the publican, and many publicans in the days of “Caesar”, thus give unto Caesar what is Caesar's: ...

Various times, in regards “few days”:

a few days old, just born:

Job 14:1 - Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.

a few days of chastening:

Hebrews 12:10 - For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

10 Days:

Genesis 24:55;p - “... us a few days, at the least ten ...”

2 Days, a Month or a Year:

Numbers 9:20 - And so it was, when the cloud was a few days upon the tabernacle; according to the commandment of the LORD they abode in their tents, and according to the commandment of the LORD they journeyed.

Numbers 9:21 - And so it was, when the cloud abode from even unto the morning, and that the cloud was taken up in the morning, then they journeyed: whether it was by day or by night that the cloud was taken up, they journeyed.

Numbers 9:22 - Or whether it were two days, or a month, or a year, that the cloud tarried upon the tabernacle, remaining thereon, the children of Israel abode in their tents, and journeyed not: but when it was taken up, they journeyed.

7 Years:

Genesis 29:20 - And Jacob served seven years for Rachel; and they seemed unto him but a few days, for the love he had to her.

20 Years:

Genesis 27:44 - And tarry with him a few days, until thy brother's fury turn away;

Genesis 27:45 - Until thy brother's anger turn away from thee, and he forget that which thou hast done to him: then I will send, and fetch thee from thence: why should I be deprived also of you both in one day?

Genesis 31:41 - Thus have I been twenty years in thy house; I served thee fourteen years for thy two daughters, and six years for thy cattle: and thou hast changed my wages ten times.

130 Years:

Genesis 47:9 - And Jacob said unto Pharaoh, The days of the years of my pilgrimage are an hundred and thirty years: few and evil have the days of the years of my life been, and have not attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in the days of their pilgrimage.

A lifetime:

Job 10:20 - Are not my days few? cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little,

A “few days”, therefore seems to signify as much time as is required to accomplish what is spoken of, whether a matter of moments, or to centuries. It seems to also signify within a single moment, suddenly, at the culmination of the time, ie 'in a single day' or 'within a few moments' it would come to this or that.

 

[Alofa Atu]

Various times, in regards “few days” ...

A “few days”, therefore seems to signify as much time as is required to accomplish what is spoken of, whether a matter of moments, or to centuries. It seems to also signify within a single moment, suddenly, at the culmination of the time, ie 'in a single day' or 'within a few moments' it would come to this or that.

What then does “destroyed” mean according to scripture? It means to be broken to pieces, shattered. Rome would come to be divided and not overthrown by another world power.

Iron Rome broken to pieces, divided:

Daniel 2:40 - And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in peices and bruise.

Daniel 2:41 - And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

Daniel 2:42 - And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Daniel 2:43 - And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Daniel 7:7 - After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Daniel 7:20 - And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

Daniel 7:24 - And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The same word used for “destroyed” is used throughout:

Broken idols, images:

Exodus 23:24 - Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

1 Kings 19:11 - And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:

2 Kings 11:18 - And all the people of the land went into the house of Baal, and brake it down; his altars and his images brake they in pieces thoroughly, and slew Mattan the priest of Baal before the altars. And the priest appointed officers over the house of the LORD.

2 Kings 18:4 - He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

2 Kings 23:14 - And he brake in pieces the images, and cut down the groves, and filled their places with the bones of men.

2 Chronicles 23:17 - Then all the people went to the house of Baal, and brake it down, and brake his altars and his images in pieces, and slew Mattan the priest of Baal before the altars.

2 Chronicles 31:1 - Now when all this was finished, all Israel that were present went out to the cities of Judah, and brake the images in pieces, and cut down the groves, and threw down the high places and the altars out of all Judah and Benjamin, in Ephraim also and Manasseh, until they had utterly destroyed them all. Then all the children of Israel returned, every man to his possession, into their own cities.

2 Chronicles 34:4 - And they brake down the altars of Baalim in his presence; and the images, that were on high above them, he cut down; and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images, he brake in pieces, and made dust of them, and strowed it upon the graves of them that had sacrificed unto them.

Kingdom broken to pieces:

Daniel 8:7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.

Moses broke the Tables of the Ten Commandments:

Exodus 32:19 - And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

Deuteronomy 9:17 - And I took the two tables, and cast them out of my two hands, and brake them before your eyes.

Deuteronomy 10:1 - At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood.

Deuteronomy 10:2 - And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.

A city and its people broken up:

Jeremiah 19:11 - And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel, that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.

Brass broken to pieces and carried away:

Jeremiah 52:17 - Also the pillars of brass that were in the house of the LORD, and the bases, and the brasen sea that was in the house of the LORD, the Chaldeans brake, and carried all the brass of them to Babylon.

Trees broken, or shattered, to pieces:

Exodus 9:25 - And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field.

Ships broken to pieces by winds and waves:

Psalms 48:7 - Thou breakest the ships of Tarshish with an east wind.

Then “neither in anger, nor in battle”, refers to being divided, and broken up, but not conquered.

What is amazing, is that by Daniel 11:20 KJB, Jerusalem would be leveled to the ground by Rome, even as it was earlier leveled to the ground by Babylon.

 

[Alofa Atu]

What then does “destroyed” mean according to scripture? It means to be broken to pieces, shattered. Rome would come to be divided and not overthrown by another world power.

Iron Rome broken to pieces, divided:...

Then “neither in anger, nor in battle”, refers to being divided, and broken up, but not conquered.

What is amazing, is that by Daniel 11:20 KJB, Jerusalem would be leveled to the ground by Rome, even as it was earlier leveled to the ground by Babylon.

Therefore, we can go back to the king of Greecia, and start from there, and continue into Rome:

[6] Antiochus III The Great 222 – 187 BC (AM 4004 - AM 4039) [born 241 BC]

transfer of strength to Rome 187 BC - 168 BC (AM 4039 - AM 4058)

Rome 168 BC (AM 4058)

"... In 168 BC, it [Pella] was sacked by the Romans, and its treasury transported to Rome, and Livy reported how the city looked in 167 BC to Lucius Aemilius Paulus Macedonicus, the Roman who defeated Perseus at the battle of Pydna: ..." - Pella - Wikipedia

"... The third and second century BC saw the establishment of Roman hegemony over the Mediterranean and the East, through the three Punic Wars (264–146 BC) fought against the city of Carthage and the three Macedonian Wars (212–168 BC) against Macedonia.[34] Then were established the first Roman provinces: Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica, Hispania, Macedonia, Achaea and Africa.[35] ..." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome

And after a short period comes along Julius Caesar:

"... Gaius Julius Caesar[a] (/ˈsiːzər/; Latin pronunciation: [ˈɡaː.i.ʊs ˈjuː.li.ʊs ˈkae̯.sar]; 12 or 13 July 100 BC – 15 March 44 BC),[c] known by his nomen and cognomen Julius Caesar ..." - Julius Caesar - Wikipedia

(etc)

(Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix)

Julius Caesar - Ruled Rome - October 49 BC – 15 March 44 BC (AM 4177 - AM 4182)

Gaius Octavius Thurinus (Augustus) - Ruled Rome (40 years) - 16 January 27 BC - 19 August AD 14 (AM 4199 - AM 4239, no year 0, goes from 1 BC to AD 1)

The date of BC 1 (circa AM 4225)
the date of AD 1 (circa AM 4226)

Thus from BC 1 to AD 2019, we need to add 2019 years to AM 4225;

AM 4225 (BC 1) + 2019 years = AM 6244 ish.

Do we agree thus far on the chronology? ± 1 a year or so?

... and thus the evening portion of the great Sabbath, the great 7th day with God, begins on earth, for the time cometh, when no man can Gospel work ...

 

[Alofa Atu]

... Thus from BC 1 to AD 2019, we need to add 2019 years to AM 4225;

AM 4225 (BC 1) + 2019 years = AM 6244 ish.

Do we agree thus far on the chronology? ± 1 a year or so?

... and thus the evening portion of the great Sabbath, the great 7th day with God, begins on earth, for the time cometh, when no man can Gospel work ...

Mankind is indeed, very 'young':

Link to resources

TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free

Powerpoint

PDF

 

[rlvaughn]

Do we agree thus far on the chronology? ± 1 a year?

I haven't looked any further (time constraints), but appear to be in general consensus up to Joseph. Where you called yours AM (Anno Mundo, year of the world), I called mine ASC (after sixth day of creation). Will paste mine and check back later. It may not keep formatting, so here is a link also. I have changed mine a time or two, keep them all, and then get confused which is the latest!

TOWARD A BIBLICAL TIMELINE FROM CREATION
ASC = after sixth-day of creation
Event Day/Year Biblical Reference/s
Creation Day 1 Genesis 1:1
Creation of Adam Day 6 Genesis 1:26-31
Death of Adam 930 ASC Genesis 5:5
Translation of Enoch 987 ASC Genesis 5:23-24
Death of Seth 1042 ASC Genesis 5:8
Birth of Noah 1056 ASC Genesis 5:28-29
Death of Enos 1140 ASC Genesis 5:11
Death of Cainan 1235 ASC Genesis 5:14
Death of Mahalalel 1290 ASC Genesis 5:17
Death of Jared 1422 ASC Genesis 5:20
Birth of Shem 1558 ASC Genesis 11:10
Death of Lamech 1651 ASC Genesis 5:31
Death of Methuselah 1656 ASC Genesis 5:27
Flood 1656 ASC Genesis 7:11
Birth of Arphaxad 1658 ASC Genesis 11:10
Tower of Babel 1757-1996 Gen 10:25; I Chron 1:19
Death of Peleg 1996 ASC Genesis 11:18-19
Death of Nahor 1997 ASC Genesis 11:24-25
Death of Noah 2006 ASC Genesis 9:29
Birth of Abram 2008 ASC Gen 11:32, 12:1-4; Acts 7:2-4
Death of Reu 2026 ASC Genesis 11:20-21
Death of Serug 2049 ASC Genesis 11:22-23
Death of Terah 2083 ASC Genesis 11:32
Calling of Abram 2083 ASC Genesis 12:1; Acts 7:4
Birth of Ishmael 2094 ASC Genesis 16:16
Death of Arphaxad 2096 ASC Genesis 11:12-13
Birth of Isaac 2108 ASC Genesis 21:5
Death of Salah 2126 ASC Genesis 11:14-15
Death of Sarah 2145 ASC Genesis 23:1-2
Marriage of Isaac 2148 ASC Genesis 25:20
Death of Shem 2158 ASC Genesis 11:11
Death of Abraham 2183 ASC Genesis 25:7
Death of Eber 2187 ASC Genesis 11:16-17
Birth of Jacob & Esau 2168 ASC Genesis 25:26
Marriage of Esau 2208 ASC Genesis 26:24
Death of Ishmael 2231 ASC Genesis 25:17
Marriage of Jacob 2252 ASC Genesis 29:20-28
Birth of Reuben 2252 ASC Genesis 29:32
Birth of Joseph 2259 ASC Genesis 30:22-24
Jacob leaves Laban 2265 ASC Genesis 31:41
Joseph sold to slavery 2276 ASC Gen 37:2,28
Death of Isaac 2288 ASC Genesis 35:28
Death of Jacob 2315 ASC Genesis 47:9,28; 49:33
Death of Joseph 2369 ASC Genesis 50:22,26
Birth of Moses ca 2433 80 years before the Exodus
Moses flees Egypt ca 2473 40 years before the Exodus
The Exodus from Egypt 2513 ASC Gal 3:17; 430 from calling of Abram
The Wandering 2513-2553 40 years in the Wilderness
Death of Moses 2553 ASC Deuteronomy 34:5-7
Entrance into Canaan 2553 ASC Joshua 1:1-2
Time of the Judges ca 450 yrs Acts 13:20; circa 450 years
Saul made King 2949 ASC I Samuel 10:20-24
David made King 2989 ASC II Sam 2:4; 5:4; I Kings 2:11
Solomon made King 3029 ASC I Kings 2:12
Temple began 3033 ASC I Kings 6:1; 480 after the Exodus
Temple finished 3040 ASC I Kings 6:37-38
End of Solomon's reign 3069 ASC I Kings 11:42
Kingdom divided 3070 ASC 1st year of Rehoboam
Calling of Isaiah 3290 ASC Last year of Uzziah
Captivity of Israel 3317 ASC II Kings 18:10-12
Captivity of Judah 3449 ASC II Kings 25:1-21 (70 years)
Decree of Cyrus 3519 ASC 2 Chron 36:21-23; Isaiah 45
Ezra 1-6 3519 ASC Ezra 1:1-3
Haggai and Zechariah 3539 ASC Haggai 1:1; Zechariah 1:1
Esther 3575 ASC Esther 1:1-3
Ezra 7-10 3601 ASC Ezra 7:1
Nehemiah 3614 ASC Nehemiah 1:1
Coming of Jesus 4002 ASC Dan 9:24-27; 483 from Cyrus decree

 

[Alofa Atu]

Flood 1656 ASC Genesis 7:11
Birth of Arphaxad 1658 ASC Genesis 11:10

Nice listing. I have a concern at this point above. We seem to agree that the year of the flood began in 1656. And you seem to agree that Arphaxad was born "two years" after the flood, and yet I do not see the timeframe included of the "year" of the flood, which is why I see that your time differs at this point by 1 year from my listing.

Do you see that you should have included the 370 days from 1656 - 1657, and then count 2 years "after" the flood for Arphaxad and all that follow?

Or is there a more specific reason you did not include the 1 year of the flood itself, or am I missing that you did include it?

I will continue to consider your listing. Otherwise, at the point of the flood, looks like we agree, and the same basic timeframe up to Joseph (except for the 1 year difference as noted).

 

[Alofa Atu]

Birth of Moses ca 2433 80 years before the Exodus ... The Exodus from Egypt 2513 ASC Gal 3:17; 430 from calling of Abram

I have another concern at this point.

If you place Moses birth at 2433 ASC (the only reason I used AM, Anno Mundi, is because it is a standard of practice, like BC or AD, but ASC is good too. ), how then do you reconcile 1 Ki 16:1, with Jacob/Israel having gone down into Egypt when He was 130, ca AM 2299 (2298 ASC), and his death AM 2316 (2315 ASC), in that Gen 46:1-7,26-27, 47:1-12,29, 50:22; Exo 12:40-41 all refer to Jacob/Israel (not Abraham), and the 400+ year timespan that the soujourning of the children of Jacob/Israel (not Abraham) was in Egypt Gen 15:13-14; Acts 7:6-7; Gal 3:17.

It seems you are basing this calculation on Gal 3:17 alone (I do not desire to make an assumption here, and if I am wrong, please let me know), and reading all the other texts through that single lens. I would like to suggest to you, that this is a mistake, in that the counting of the 430 should not be counted from Abraham, for Gal 3:17 does not actually say to do that, for in so doing that, from that single text, it reduces the time of Jacob/Israel and the children thereof to less than 300 years (generally around 215 years by 'scholars') in Egypt, which is less than 3 generations (Moses lived 120; Aaron to 123).

Please consider these clearer verses on this:

Exo 12:40 Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.

Exo 12:41 And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.

Why should we, as scriptural chronologists, begin with Abraham 85 years before Jacob was even born, based upon a less clear passage such as Gal 3:17, when if read in the light of the other text, we would conclude it is speaking of beginning with Jacob in Egypt, as a child of Abraham, and the covenant renewed with him?

How then could this passage be correct:

Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

The "seed" of Abraham would serve in Egypt and be "afflicted" 400 years, not 215.

ps. I really appreciate you taking the time to post what you did and sharing, as most are not interested in chronology, but there are fascinating things to learn about God, and time in them.

 

[rlvaughn]

Do you see that you should have included the 370 days from 1656 - 1657, and then count 2 years "after" the flood for Arphaxad and all that follow?

Or is there a more specific reason you did not include the 1 year of the flood itself, or am I missing that you did include it?

In this case I don't think I ever considered two years after the flood started versus two years after the flood receded -- just added two years to the flood date. Thanks for the point and the question. I'll look back over this.

It seems you are basing this calculation on Gal 3:17 alone...

I wouldn't say that I based it on that alone necessarily, but I wavered on the proper way to count through that period. I have done it the other way in the past (longer, i.e. not from Abraham), but it has been long enough that I don't at this time any longer remember exactly why I changed my mind. When I have more time I'll look back over all the scriptures you have referenced here.

ps. I really appreciate you taking the time to post what you did and sharing, as most are not interested in chronology, but there are fascinating things to learn about God, and time in them.

You're welcome. I find the biblical historical timeline intriguing, and think it (even if we are off a few years here and there) is the best approach rather than trying make the Bible fit ancient history "as we know it." That approach usually ends in somebody claiming the Bible is wrong about this or that point in history.

 

[Alofa Atu]

In this case I don't think I ever considered two years after the flood started versus two years after the flood receded -- just added two years to the flood date. Thanks for the point and the question. I'll look back over this.

Sure thing brother. When I myself, was going through this, I noticed that many, even Ussher overlooked this, and his was a great basis to kind of use as a guide. Sure, let me know, as I would be interested after you look it over.

I wouldn't say that I based it on that alone necessarily, but I wavered on the proper way to count through that period.

Fair enough.

I have done it the other way in the past (longer, i.e. not from Abraham), but it has been long enough that I don't at this time any longer remember exactly why I changed my mind.

Interesting, if you do remember, I would be interested in considering it.

When I have more time I'll look back over all the scriptures you have referenced here.

Ok, sure thing brother. I love Bible study don't you? It's great to get in the word, and really dig in with someone, especially someone interested in the same topic, and with the same care and love for it.

You're welcome.

I find the biblical historical timeline intriguing, and think it (even if we are off a few years here and there) is the best approach rather than trying make the Bible fit ancient history "as we know it."

You got my vote.

That approach usually ends in somebody claiming the Bible is wrong about this or that point in history.

Yeah that happens, especially when dealing with Moses and anything before that era, and even in the timeframe of Saul, David and Solomon. Lots of historical revisionism takes place, along with a lot of trusting Egyptian writings.

Even in the area of map-making. I have only once, in my life, seen anything resembling an accurate Exodus (Egypt to Sinai and Red Sea Crossing) map, and all the others are scriptural denial pretending to be historic, and laughable, as if Pharaoh and chariots drowned in 2 inches of swamp land, and some having the wrong chronology go with the wrong Pharaoh, and deny that the Pharaoh of the Exodus ever died (even though scripture is clear on that point). persons also deny other historical events such as Jericho, AI and Joshua, such as Kathleen Kenyon and all who followed her erroneous conclusion (they had an erroneous beginning).

 

[rlvaughn]

If you place Moses birth at 2433 ASC (the only reason I used AM, Anno Mundi, is because it is a standard of practice, like BC or AD, but ASC is good too...

By the way, I should have said that I think AM and ASC are the same for all practical purposes (only six days difference). At the time I was looking for a way to describe the sequence of years, and did it that way since the count begins with the life of Adam, which began on the sixth day of creation.

Sure, let me know, as I would be interested after you look it over...Interesting, if you do remember, I would be interested in considering it.

If I get a chance, I will. Right now I am looking back over this, but with a main focus on the 24-hours days of the week of creation, so the rest of the timeline is kind of peripheral to that at the moment.

Even in the area of map-making. I have only once, in my life, seen anything resembling an accurate Exodus (Egypt to Sinai and Red Sea Crossing) map...

I would be interested in seeing that map. Do you remember where to find it?

...laughable, as if Pharaoh and chariots drowned in 2 inches of swamp land...

Reminds me of listening to J. Vernon McGee years ago. He talked about those who denied the Red Sea crossing, then he laughed and said that in denying the miracle they have to create another miracle -- that God drowned the entire Egyptian army in two inches of water! (Of course, those deniers actually probably don't even accept the event as historical.)

 

[Alofa Atu]

By the way, I should have said that I think AM and ASC are the same for all practical purposes (only six days difference).

Sure thing, brother. I was just hoping not to have offended.

At the time I was looking for a way to describe the sequence of years, and did it that way since the count begins with the life of Adam, which began on the sixth day of creation.

Sounds like a good way to do it to me.

If I get a chance, I will. Right now I am looking back over this, but with a main focus on the 24-hours days of the week of creation, so the rest of the timeline is kind of peripheral to that at the moment.

Ok. Do you want to look at that in this thread also? We still have some space before it is closed up.

I would be interested in seeing that map. Do you remember where to find it?

Hmm, I want to say it was in the back of a Bible (like most maps are), but I do not have that Bible. it is possible that it might be scanned and online by now somewhere, but apologies I do not actually have it, as it was not my Bible (at least I am pretty sure that's where I saw it so long ago (quite a few years ago).

Reminds me of listening to J. Vernon McGee years ago. He talked about those who denied the Red Sea crossing, then he laughed and said that in denying the miracle they have to create another miracle -- that God drowned the entire Egyptian army in two inches of water! (Of course, those deniers actually probably don't even accept the event as historical.)

Sounds like he knew what he was talking about. Yep, in denying one miracle of God, futile efforts by God deniers, must drum up a thousand more man-made 'miracles' to explain away the one true one. Like why didn't Pharaoh etal. just go around the supposed area, since they were in the 'hot-rods' of the day and Moses on foot. Why didn't Moses etal drown in the same supposed area, being on foot, while the Egyptians did, sounds like a 'miracle' to me ... (of course I deny all that foolishness, and agree with the actual scriptural historical account).

 

[rlvaughn]

Sure thing, brother. I was just hoping not to have offended.

No, not at all. I am enjoying considering how the timeline is looked at by someone else, and consider places I might be mistaken. It's not that many people who are interested in such.

 

[MartyF]

I am not that confident about many of the numbers in the Old Testament, including dates and numbers of people. I believe there are many transcriptional errors. So, I don't really believe in putting down a precise date.

However, I would say less than 10,000 years.

 

[Alofa Atu]

I am not that confident about many of the numbers in the Old Testament, including dates and numbers of people.

In asking, what do you base your doubts (ie, lack of "confidence") upon? Is it manuscripturally based, is it based upon secular historiography? is it based upon Lyellian geological theory, is it based upon darwinian ideology?, etc?

Is there any internal evidence that any of the writers of the scriptures (Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Baruch, David, Solomon, Asaph, Daniel, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James, Peter, Paul, Jude, etc) doubted any of the numbers or dates given in the scripture, in those histories written down before their time? Is there any internal evidence that any of the non-writers of the scriptures (Job, Jacob, Jeremiah, Andrew, & the other Apostles, etc) doubted any of the numbers or dates given in the scripture, in those histories written down before their time?

As a for instance, Jacob stated (at 130 years of age):

Genesis 47:9 And Jacob said unto Pharaoh, The days of the years of my pilgrimage are an hundred and thirty years: few and evil have the days of the years of my life been, and have not attained unto the days of the years of the life of my fathers in the days of their pilgrimage.

Jacob just stated that, though he was 130 years old, that his days of living were "few" compared to "the days of the years of the life of [his] fathers" in their own days. This would be a strange statement coming from Jacob, if he himself did not believe in the ages of his fore-fathers, Abraham, Noah, Methuselah, Adam.

Jude understood that Enoch was the "seventh" from Adam:

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

The Gospel writers, Matthew and Luke, record the genealogy, back to Abraham, and the other back to Adam, and both even relying upon 1 Chronicles, Ruth 4, Genesis 10 & 5.

Job, specifically spoke of those before the flood and about what happened to them, as did Jesus, Peter and Jude, along with the Psalmist.

So, I am trying to understand what would bring such a question to your mind as to have concern about both the "numbers", "dates" and "numbers of people" in the OT.

For instance, do you include in your question, the amount of persons that came out of Egypt with Moses, during the Exodus? Do you question the 1.5 + million that exited the nation? and if so, would you share based upon what criteria, that doubt is raised? Do you question the amount of persons that the Kingdom of David had therein?

I believe there are many transcriptional errors.

Would you mind sharing, based upon what evidences? Is it manuscripturally based, and if so, which specifically do you refer to, is it so-called 'lxx' based, and if so, which one/s, is it based upon higher criticism or other critical methods, an if so, which ones?

Is there any internal evidence that any of the writers (as above), or non-writers (as above) questioned any of the material (manuscripts and their contents, words) which they had available to them, since the time of Moses? For instance, did Daniel doubt the material of Jeremiah, or that of the other prophets before him (unto Moses)?

Would you also suggest that the angelic presence throughout the scriptures allowed not only errors to creep in, but also never gave instruction to correct if there had been such error in the texts available to those persons of the scripture (as noted already)? for instance, when Gabriel appeared to Daniel, did Gabriel make any mention about correcting this or that word, date, number, or when Gabriel appeared to others in scripture, same question? Did Jesus, in any of the NT, writing, make any mention of the scriptures then available (Gen to Mal), needing to be corrected by himself, the author of the words given before, through the agency of the Holy Ghost to the prophets, kings, etc? Is there any internal evidence that Jesus needed to correct a single portion of the word they then had? Same question would go for any of the Apostle writers, such as Peter, John, or Paul.

When Jesus said, that his words word not pass away, in the NT, do you consider that Jesus was the one speaking and inspiring (by/through the Holy Ghost) in all of the OT, or do you not agree to that?

So, I don't really believe in putting down a precise date.

While I cannot and shall not make anyone do anything, I do have questions.

Do you believe in the historical accounts of Alexander III the Great, by Plutarch? How long after Alexander's death is the first available historical account/s, and how many copies are there, and do you have any doubts about its/their transmission?

Do you use the same criteria, as you have the scripture, in judging other historical accounts?

However, I would say less than 10,000 years.

If you doubt the "many numbers", "dates", & "numbers of people" as recorded in the scripture, which we have today, upon what basis, what criteria, what unerring foundation, do you come to say, "less than 10,000 years"?