Those whom the Gospel hasn't reached

[ChurchofChristguy]

Abraham received special revelation from God. The general revelation of God in creation has been rejected by all and condemns all. Special revelation (the gospel) is needed for salvation.

What has been suggested is that the gospel is not necessary for salvation, that somehow a person who never hears the gospel can still be saved.

If there is another way to salvation, then Jesus died needlessly. Why would God sacrifice His Son when salvation can be obtained in some other way?

Peace to you

So all those who lived before Jesus are summarily condemned, regardless of their heart?

There is indeed only one way to salvation, and that is the power of Jesus' blood. It flows forward AND backward. To limit the power of his blood to the folks living in the last couple dozen centuries is pretty lame. Jesus is the author of creation. His powers are limitless. He saved a man being crucified next to him not because the man "heard the gospel and obeyed" - he did not. He saved him because the man acknowledged who Jesus was and Jesus wanted to.

Peace to you, too.

 

[canadyjd]

Of course he wants everyone to hear the Gospel. The beauty of it all is that he wants us as participants with his plan. Check Jesus' last charge before he ascended. "Into ALL the world...to EVERY living creature".

Jesus could have rocks and trees, animals, insects or fish in the sea proclaim the gospel. By choosing us to proclaim the gospel, it was made certain that not everyone would hear the gospel.

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

So all those who lived before Jesus are summarily condemned, regardless of their heart?

There is indeed only one way to salvation, and that is the power of Jesus' blood. It flows forward AND backward. To limit the power of his blood to the folks living in the last couple dozen centuries is pretty lame. Jesus is the author of creation. His powers are limitless. He saved a man being crucified next to him not because the man "heard the gospel and obeyed" - he did not. He saved him because the man acknowledged who Jesus was and Jesus wanted to.

Peace to you, too.

You are assuming there were some who had the right "heart" for salvation. Scripture tells none were righteous, all had gone astray.

Those in OT times were saved by grace through faith in God's promise of the coming messiah. That was special revelation.

Peace to you

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

Jesus could have rocks and trees, animals, insects or fish in the sea proclaim the gospel. By choosing us to proclaim the gospel, it was made certain that not everyone would hear the gospel.

Peace to you

So by your reasoning, it is God's will for certain folks to not hear the word and to perish as a result? How do you square that with John 3:16? It doesn't say "For God so loved part of the world..."

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

You are assuming there were some who had the right "heart" for salvation. Scripture tells none were righteous, all had gone astray.

Those in OT times were saved by grace through faith in God's promise of the coming messiah. That was special revelation.

Peace to you

So only the precious few mentioned in the OT, that were given special revelation, were saved?

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

We are getting out there on some pretty far-out stuff. I mean WAY out there. So I am going to bow out and move along.

 

[FreeBaptist]

Why would someone else's beliefs keep you from being a Christian? Scripture tells us to be convinced in our own minds about what we believe.

I don't know alot about John Wesley, but I would be very surprised if he believed someone could be saved without hearing the gospel. If he did, I would like to see that reference so I can read it myself.

Peace to you

Wesley believed it. From The Religious Bodies of America: "Wesley believed not only that salvation has been procured for all, but also that salvation is actually offered to all, regardless of whether or not they hear the Gospel proclamation. Wesley inclined strongly to the theory of 'universality of opportunity' as advocated by Origen. Like Origen he believed that God's kingdom is really threefold, represented by three concentric circles. The Father's kingdom is the most extensive and embraces all men. In this realm men are guided in their actions only by the light of reason and therefore will be judged solely by the use they made of their opportunities. In the Son's kingdom the standard of judgment is the Gospel. The Spirit's realm is restricted exclusively to those who have had an 'experiential knowledge' of Christ. As the degree of knowledge varies in each of the three dispensations, so also the standard of judgment. For Wesley the important thing is that God never requires more than that man live according to the measure of light given to him. In Wesley's opinion 'universal salvation' is tantamount to 'universal opportunity'.

This is in line with what is taught in the Book of Romans. The Quakers also believed this, as well as Arminians in general, including the Salvation Army.

 

[37818]

Salvation is not deserved by any of us. And we who have obtained this undeserved salvation are given the task to make it available to others. Romans 3:11.

 

[canadyjd]

Wesley believed it. From The Religious Bodies of America: "Wesley believed not only that salvation has been procured for all, but also that salvation is actually offered to all, regardless of whether or not they hear the Gospel proclamation. Wesley inclined strongly to the theory of 'universality of opportunity' as advocated by Origen. Like Origen he believed that God's kingdom is really threefold, represented by three concentric circles. The Father's kingdom is the most extensive and embraces all men. In this realm men are guided in their actions only by the light of reason and therefore will be judged solely by the use they made of their opportunities. In the Son's kingdom the standard of judgment is the Gospel. The Spirit's realm is restricted exclusively to those who have had an 'experiential knowledge' of Christ. As the degree of knowledge varies in each of the three dispensations, so also the standard of judgment. For Wesley the important thing is that God never requires more than that man live according to the measure of light given to him. In Wesley's opinion 'universal salvation' is tantamount to 'universal opportunity'.

This is in line with what is taught in the Book of Romans. The Quakers also believed this, as well as Arminians in general, including the Salvation Army.

Thank you for the reference. I'll disagree.

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

So by your reasoning, it is God's will for certain folks to not hear the word and to perish as a result? How do you square that with John 3:16? It doesn't say "For God so loved part of the world..."

I Cor tells us that in the wisdom of the world men could not come to God but God was well pleased by the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

The gospel I'd God's plan to bring salvation to all His chosen.

 

[FreeBaptist]

Thank you for the reference. I'll disagree.

Peace to you

You're welcome.

 

[1689Dave]

Salvation from the time of Abel on has always been in the New Birth. In the NT Cornelius had the fruit of the Spirit long before he heard Peter preach. And Peter told him “But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” (Acts 10:35) These too are fruits of the Holy Spirit and signs of the new birth in many beyond the reach of the gospel. This only holds true in the case of Limited Atonement which would mean all for whom Christ died will be born again. And these will take joy in the gospel as Abraham did even in its most primitive level. The Westminster Confession and London Baptist Confession 1689 include this saying; Paragraph 3. Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit;10 who works when, and where, and how He pleases;11 so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
10 John 3:3, 5, 6
11 John 3:8

THE BAPTIST CONFESSION OF FAITH OF 1689 .

 

[Iconoclast]

It is God's desire that everyone hear the Gospel, that is patently obvious. Furthermore, there is an urgency to spreading the Gospel, as Jesus' last words before his ascension were "go, tell, baptize" (paraphrase). Jesus said that the two greatest commandments were to 1) Love God, and 2) Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

We tend to 1) Love ourselves, 2) Defend our doctrine, and 3) Condemn others.

Is it God's desire that everyone hear the gospel?
Why did he confuse the languages at Babel? How did that help?

 

[InTheLight]

Is it God's desire that everyone hear the gospel?

Duh.


Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:19

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15


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[John Yurich]

I don't know if this has been discussed at length here previously, but it was mentioned in another thread I was reading, so I thought I would make it a topic. What do you think happens in the afterlife to those who never had a chance to hear or accept the Gospel in this life?

Those who pass away without embracing Jesus as their Savior will go to Hell even if they never heard about Jesus.

 

[Iconoclast]

Duh.


Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:19

And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15


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What about the people before the cross....duh?

 

[Adonia]

Those who pass away without embracing Jesus as their Savior will go to Hell even if they never heard about Jesus.

I am stunned by opinions such as this. You do not know what God will do in these type of instances and God can act in any manner in which He chooses. He could welcome them into His heavenly abode and send you straight to hell if He so desires.

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

What about the people before the cross....duh?

See post 32 for a coherent explanation. The Blood of Christ covers those before the cross.

 

[InTheLight]

What about the people before the cross....duh?

#3

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

Our answers come directly from our view of God, and not necessarily from scripture. If you view God as a God of justice, then you must necessarily then believe that all who have not heard are lost, because they were unable to comply with a "law" that God established that one must believe and accept Lord as Savior.

Yet we are not saved by God's justice (law), but only by his grace and mercy. When we see God described in the scripture, he is always first and foremost a God of grace and mercy. Yes, he his also a God of truth, but never does truth come before grace and mercy in his description. If you look at the design of the Ark of the Covenant, the contents - including the law - are covered by the seat of mercy. The law is important, but it isn't coincidence that law is inside the Ark, while the seat of Mercy is outside the Ark and covers it. Grace and Mercy always come before law, because God is first and foremost a God of Grace and Mercy. Praise be to God!

It isn't for justice that God became flesh. It was exclusively an act of grace and mercy. Jesus didn't come to condemn the world through justice, but save it through grace and mercy. His blood doesn't save us for the purposes of justice, but because it covers us through grace and mercy and renders us justified.

Furthermore, the Blood is intended for all men. God's desire is that no one should perish. 2 Peter 3:9. Certainly, there is an urgency for the Gospel to be preached to the entire earth, hence Christ's charge to his apostles; not necessarily because some savages in a jungle are otherwise "lost", but because they will never experience the fullness of great joy and peace of the Gospel in this present life, and that is a great tragedy.

As for those who lived prior to the cross, the blood, through grace and mercy, flows backward to them, as has been discussed here by others already.