Those whom the Gospel hasn't reached

[37818]

What happened to those outside the Ark?

Well, it is my understanding, of those who were sons of God, ". . . For Christ . . . he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, . . . For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. . . ." 1 Peter 3:18-19, 1 Peter 4:6.

They were sons of God (Genesis 6:2). Not angels called sons of God (Job 1:6; Matthew 22:30).

 

[37818]

I'm not saying everyone will go to heaven. But I know God is more fair and merciful than any human being. I also believe my view is supported in scripture, in Romans, for example.

The ones who perish have at some point had their name removed from the book of life (Revelation 20:15, Exodus 32:33; Psalms 69:27-28). Little children are safe in Christ should they die as such (Mark 10:14). So we must be counted as little children to keep our names in His book (Mark 10:15: John 3:3-4; 1 John 5:4; Revelation 3:5),

 

[Iconoclast]

I'm not saying everyone will go to heaven. But I know God is more fair and merciful than any human being. I also believe my view is supported in scripture, in Romans, for example.

Well yes God is Holy in all of his attributes he has a holy love a holy wrath a holy righteousness everything God does is perfect

 

[Iconoclast]

Well, it is my understanding, of those who were sons of God, ". . . For Christ . . . he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, . . . For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. . . ." 1 Peter 3:18-19, 1 Peter 4:6.

They were sons of God (Genesis 6:2). Not angels called sons of God (Job 1:6; Matthew 22:30).

No... he did not go and preach to them in prison

 

[37818]

No... he did not go and preach to them in prison

So then you deny ". . . he preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, . . ." 1 Peter 3:19-20. (Genesis 6:4). They were men, not angels (Matthew 22:30).

 

[canadyjd]

Allow me to clarify. I am not stating that it is proper for our view of God to enter in, but it most certainly does. Many have grown up in households and churches where God is a God of revenge. He's mad. He's waiting for us to screw up. The devil tells us this all the time. He wants us to believe this about God. Our view of scripture comes through the lenses of our personal history, as well as our view of God. That view is often distorted, if not outright molested.

Answers come from scripture. But only some answers, not all. For example, there is no answer in scripture as to why bad things happen to good people. Only God knows all answers. And while scripture infers that we may know more answers in heaven, certainly we will never know all of the answers because we will never be God, even in our glorified state.

God was, is, and always will be, a God of grace and mercy before all other things. People who have not heard the Gospel have had no opportunity to reject God by not having heard it.

I appreciate your clarification. All the more reason to have a sound foundation in scripture.

Scripture tells us all people have already rejected God.

Will you answer this question? If there was another way for salvation to come to mankind without the gospel, why would God send Jesus to die for our sins?

For example, suppose a father had two sons and one was terminally ill. The doctors tell the father they can cure the sick son with one of two treatments. One of the treatments involves a total blood transfusion from the healthy son (which kills him) and the other involves medicine. Both treatments will heal the sick child.

What father would chose to kill his own son if it were not necessary?

Peace to you

 

[Iconoclast]

So then you deny ". . . he preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, . . ." 1 Peter 3:19-20. (Genesis 6:4). They were men, not angels (Matthew 22:30).

I deny Jesus went down to the spirits in prison,yes. The verse does not teach that. What it does preach is in the day of Noah, the Spirit used Noahs preaching to challenge those, who are now in prison....It was the Spirit, not Jesus who worked through Noah, watch;

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh,


but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[Reynolds]

So, all those millions/billions of people from the beginning of time until the end of it who have not heard of Jesus will be condemned to hell. Doesn't sound like the God I know, or the God of the Bible.

Sounds like you must not know The God of The Bible.

 

[Reynolds]

I wish you wouldn't leave. I was enjoying reading your point of view. You are correct that Calvinists need to redefine what Bible verses actually say in order for it to fit into their theology. That's #1 on my list of faulty Calvinist debating points (in my signature, below.)

Don't let the curmudgeonly Calvinists get to you.

Let's be honest. There are verses that do not fit well into Calvinism. There are verses that don't fit well into Arminianism. There are verses that don't fit well into any of the mutt theories.

 

[Reynolds]

If God is just, above all, then we are all lost.

God is first and foremost a God of grace and mercy. He describes himself as follows in Exodus 33:18:

"Jehovah,Jehovah,a God merciful and gracious,slow to anger and abundant in loving-kindness and truth,preserving loving-kindness for the thousands,pardoning error and transgression and sin..."

Hebrews 4:16 - Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Ephesians 2:4-5 - But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us...

Psalms 86:5 - For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee.

Lamentations 3:22-23 - It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.

Deuteronomy 4:31 - For the LORD thy God is a merciful God; he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Romans 12:1-2 - I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Luke 6:36 - Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

1 Peter 1:3 - Blessed the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

So, God is not just?

 

[Iconoclast]

Let's be honest. There are verses that do not fit well into Calvinism. There are verses that don't fit well into Arminianism. There are verses that don't fit well into any of the mutt theories.

those verses fit just fine, just as they are. In fact, they are an exact fit in Calvinism.

 

[tyndale1946]

As a matter of fact, I do not have any further answers for this forum at all. The demeanor that permeates here is the antithesis of anything holy and Christ-like. “Pearls to swine” comes to mind, with swine being a compliment.

Good day and a good from-now-on to you all, I’m out.

You know, you brethren ought to be ashamed of yourselves, you ran him off... Brother Glen

 

[FreeBaptist]

Sounds like you must not know The God of The Bible.

Questioning my salvation? Grounds for banning, from what I've been told.

 

[Reynolds]

Questioning my salvation? Grounds for banning, from what I've been told.

No. You made a direct statement in which you said sending Billions of people to Hell is not what your God would do. That is exactly what The God of The Bible will do. You should seek to know what He says about himself and quit trying to Conform Him to what you think He should be.

 

[FreeBaptist]

No. You made a direct statement in which you said sending Billions of people to Hell is not what your God would do. That is exactly what The God of The Bible will do. You should seek to know what He says about himself and quit trying to Conform Him to what you think He should be.

You are doing what you're accusing me of doing. I know who and what God is because I know who and what Jesus is. Scripture supports my view of God, not yours.

 

[Reynolds]

You are doing what you're accusing me of doing. I know who and what God is because I know who and what Jesus is. Scripture supports my view of God, not yours.

Not one verse in context supports your view of God.
Revelation 19:11, You know Him?
Ever read Acts 5?

 

[37818]

I deny Jesus went down to the spirits in prison,yes. The verse does not teach that. What it does preach is in the day of Noah, the Spirit used Noahs preaching to challenge those, who are now in prison....It was the Spirit, not Jesus who worked through Noah, watch;

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh,


but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

No. It says what it says. The argument is interpetation as to how it and the context is to mean. NASB, ". . . in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, . . ."

 

[37818]

Let's be honest. There are verses that do not fit well into Calvinism. There are verses that don't fit well into Arminianism. There are verses that don't fit well into any of the mutt theories.

Then just maybe there is a third view.

 

[Reynolds]

There are plenty of "views." All have some scriptural obstacles.

Then just maybe there is a third view.

 

[37818]

There are plenty of "views." All have some scriptural obstacles.

So you know all possible views.