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Is it really synergism?

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Gup20

Gup20

Active Member
1689Dave said:
The lost do not know they are lost. They think it is foolishness. Only the born again can know of their depravity and how it relates to Christ.
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Genesis 2:17 (NASB)
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."​

Calvinists deny we have any knowledge of good, but that’s not what scripture says.

Romans 2:14-15 (NASB) 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,​

If the unsaved have the knowledge of good, and the law of God written on their conscience, how can they be “completely” depraved?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Gup20 said:
Genesis 2:17 (NASB)
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."​

Calvinists deny we have any knowledge of good, but that’s not what scripture says.

Romans 2:14-15 (NASB) 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,​

If the unsaved have the knowledge of good, and the law of God written on their conscience, how can they be “completely” depraved?
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The unsaved cannot good, their motive is always sinful
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

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1689Dave said:
The unsaved cannot good, their motive is always sinful
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Unsaved woman decided NOT to have an abortion. Always sinful? Not doing good?

Unsaved soldier jumps and covers a live grenade, saving three of his fellow soldiers. Always sinful?

An unsaved worker turns in his embezzling boss. Not doing good?

How can you not see your theology makes you do contortions with scripture, logic, and common sense?


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37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Gup20 said:
Genesis 2:17 (NASB)
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."​

Calvinists deny we have any knowledge of good, but that’s not what scripture says.

Romans 2:14-15 (NASB) 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,​

If the unsaved have the knowledge of good, and the law of God written on their conscience, how can they be “completely” depraved?
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The whole human race without the intervention of God, ". . . There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. . . ." -- Romans 3:11 ( Psalms 14:2 ).
Without God's intervention, we are all self comdemned. John 3:18.
 
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1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
Unsaved woman decided NOT to have an abortion. Always sinful? Not doing good?

Unsaved soldier jumps and covers a live grenade, saving three of his fellow soldiers. Always sinful?

An unsaved worker turns in his embezzling boss. Not doing good?

How can you not see your theology makes you do contortions with scripture, logic, and common sense?


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
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Proper Motive is everything. Only love for God and his glory will provide it.
 
utilyan

utilyan

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1689Dave said:
The unsaved cannot good, their motive is always sinful
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Depreciation of the Gospel and saying you ultimately save yourself.

I bet if went through a rundown of your conversion we can pin the repentance right in the front of the timeline.
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

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1689Dave said:
Proper Motive is everything. Only love for God and his glory will provide it.
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You said unsaved people's motives are always sinful and no good. Now you are saying only love for God is good.

Moving the goalposts is fun!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
Gup20

Gup20

Active Member
1689Dave said:
“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” (1 Corinthians 1:18)
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This verse does nothing to exclude choice.

Deuteronomy 30:1 (NASB) "So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the LORD your God has banished you,

Deuteronomy 30:6 (NASB) "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

Deuteronomy 30:11-15 (NASB) 11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 "It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' 13 "Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' 14 "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it. 15 "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity;

Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB) "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,



Romans 10:5-11 (NASB) 5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

We know from Rom 10 that Deuteronomy 30 is talking about the Salvation based on faith. Deu 30 specifically says 3 times salvation is a choice God sets before us... and it says it is not too difficult for us to make the choice (we are not too depraved to choose), and that the choice is not made in heaven (where God is).
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Gup20 said:
This verse does nothing to exclude choice.

Deuteronomy 30:1 (NASB) "So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the LORD your God has banished you,

Deuteronomy 30:6 (NASB) "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

Deuteronomy 30:11-15 (NASB) 11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 "It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' 13 "Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' 14 "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it. 15 "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity;

Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB) "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,



Romans 10:5-11 (NASB) 5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

We know from Rom 10 that Deuteronomy 30 is talking about the Salvation based on faith. Deu 30 specifically says 3 times salvation is a choice God sets before us... and it says it is not too difficult for us to make the choice (we are not too depraved to choose), and that the choice is not made in heaven (where God is).
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OT law could not save. You cannot turn the gospel into law and expect it to save either.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
InTheLight said:
You said unsaved people's motives are always sinful and no good. Now you are saying only love for God is good.

Moving the goalposts is fun!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
whatever is not of faith is sin. Goal post remains where it was...............
 
agedman

agedman

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Site Supporter
Jerome said:
...

Interceding in favor of a different form of execution is totally different than 'entreating that he might not be put to death', or as 1689Dave is characterizing it, that "Calvin pleaded for Servetus' life"!
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There is not an indication on the linked page that the “Interceding in favor of a different form of execution” was all that encompassed the matter.

Unless you can show the documentation the intercession was indeed limited to type and not about the ability execution, then it would seem the objection unfounded.

Please show support the intercession was limited.
 
agedman

agedman

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Folks

Even the Lord knew people know how to give “good gifts.”

However, there is no comparison of giving what is good and what is righteous.

The Word created the heavens and earth, they were called good - not righteous. They shall pass away.

The Word acknowledges human struggle for good, but it results in failure. Example - rich young ruler.

Righteousness is what one saved abides, not good.

Look to the parable of the dirt.

The good earth had to still have the seed sown in it.

The good earth produced that which was harvested, but the dirt was not carried away in the harvest. What was righteous was carried away.
 
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