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Who moved David?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by rlvaughn, Jun 17, 2019.

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  1. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Who moved David to number Israel?

    God did. 2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

    Satan did. 1 Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

    The sentence in 2 Samuel 24:1 attributes directly to God the things that come under his sovereign control. Men seem to use whatever expressions they find necessary to soothe their own consciences and support their own beliefs. “God caused it.” “God permitted it.” Nevertheless, in whatever ways one wishes to speculate, the statements are still that both “God moved David” and “Satan provoked David” to number Israel.

    God’s anger was kindled against the nation Israel for some sin or sins committed, which are not here named. The sin in 2 Samuel 24 verse 1 is not a reference to the numbering, which takes place only after the kindling of God’s righteous anger. Matthew Henry writes, “It is certain that it was a sin, and a great sin; but where the evil of it lay is not so certain.”

    The situation of both God and Satan inciting David to number Israel finds a close parallel in the book of Job, in the first two chapters. Even though Satan was the immediate cause for Job’s suffering, we find Job saying, “the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away” and “shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?” These statements of Job are followed by biblical commentary: “In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly” and “In all this did not Job sin with his lips.”

    In both cases leading up to Satan’s troubling of Job, Satan implores God with “put forth thine hand now.” Yet in both cases it is Satan who directly “puts forth his hand.” Job 1:11-12 and Job 2:5-7. God’s authority, sovereignty, and providence extends over the affairs of men and the actions of Satan. The word can speak of God, Satan, and man preforming the same act. We intuitively perceive that there is a “reasonable” explanation, but (if we are honest) are frequently flummoxed floundering to find it.

    Though there is sin and sorrow in this world, God will accomplish his purpose (Isaiah 14:24) and work together good for his people (Romans 8:28). We can know that assuredly.
     
    #1 rlvaughn, Jun 17, 2019
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  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You have answered your own question. God allowed satan to provoke David and then punished David for the sin. God allows satan to do evil in the world and accomplishes His purpose in doing so.

    Peace to you
     
    #2 canadyjd, Jun 17, 2019
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  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Who enticed Ahab?:
    20 And Jehovah said, Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner; and another said on that manner.
    21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before Jehovah, and said, I will entice him.
    22 And Jehovah said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt entice him, and shalt prevail also: go forth, and do so.
    23 Now therefore, behold, Jehovah hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets; and Jehovah hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1 Ki 22

    Who 'sifted' Peter?:
    31 Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat: Lu 22

    Who 'buffeted' Paul?:
    7 And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch. 2 Cor 12
     
    #3 kyredneck, Jun 18, 2019
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  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I think it's more like God plays Satan and the spirits like a banjo string.

    I think David was already contemplating the deed.
     
    #4 kyredneck, Jun 18, 2019
  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Who tempted Jesus in the wilderness?
     
    #5 HankD, Jun 18, 2019
  6. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Agree. If we follow this train of thought to its end without jumping off somewhere, we arrive at Hyper Calvinism.
     
    #6 Reynolds, Jun 18, 2019
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Let us not follow an unbiblical train to the end of track. God is sovereign, He causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. He sets before us the choice of life or death, and encourages us to choose life.
     
    #7 Van, Jun 18, 2019
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    "Everyone to the right of me is hyper". An old BB member from the past.*

    *Tom Butler
     
    #8 kyredneck, Jun 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  9. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Michael Heiser (Yahweh and Satan in Samuel and Chronicles - Dr. Michael Heiser) and Ryan Stokes (Satan, Yhwh's Executioner) argue that the two passages are really talking about the same individual. In this case, the satan (adversary) and The Angel of the Lord are synonymous; the satan is not the Devil. The Angel of the Lord is also called a satan in Numbers, and it is The Angel of the Lord who appears in both the Samuel and Chronicles accounts to carry out judgment. Stokes, in fact, argues that satan is better understood as attacker or even executioner, which would be the case in both the Samuel and Chronicles accounts.
     
    #9 rsr, Jun 18, 2019
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  10. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 Active Member
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    Satan tried to tempt Jesus but being both man he was hungry but as God he was sinless and did not fall prey to Satan.
     
    #10 JPPT1974, Jun 18, 2019
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Good question:

    1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil Mt 4

    Wonder if Satan was 'drove' there by the Spirit also? [Mark 1:12]
     
    #11 kyredneck, Jun 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  12. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Finally I got an answer.
     
    #12 HankD, Jun 23, 2019
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Whodunit?
     
    #13 kyredneck, Aug 14, 2019
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